5 ms·

Honestly, I'm baffled by the American keywordism and obsession with images. They seem to think that if they don't say certain words and show people from minorit

by mrtksn 3y ago

Honestly, I'm baffled by the American keywordism and obsession with images. They seem to think that if they don't say certain words and show people from minorities in the marketing material the racism and discrimination will be solved and atrocities from the past will be forgiven. It only become unmanageable and builds up resentment. Anyway, maybe its a phase. Sometimes I wonder if the openly racist European&Asians ways are healthier since it starts with unpleasant honesty and then comes the adjustment as people of different ethnic and cultural background come to understand each other and learn how to live together. I was minority in the country I was born and I'm immigrant/expat everywhere and I'm very familiar with racism and discrimination. The worst is the hidden one, I'm completely fine with racist people say their things, its very useful for avoiding them. The institutional racism is easy to overcome by winning the hearts of the non-racists, for every racist there are 9 fair and welcoming people out there who are interested in other cultures and want to see people treated fairly and you end up befriending them and learn from them and adapt to their ways when preserving things important to you. This keyword banning and fake smiles makes everything harder and people are freaking out when you try to discuss cultural stuff like something you do in your household that is different from what is the norm in this locality because they are afraid to say something wrong. This stuff seriously degrades the society. It's almost as if Americans want to skip the part of understanding and adaptation of people from different backgrounds by banning words and smiling all the time.

db48x 3y ago
[flagged]
- AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
  Do you have sources for these events? I’d like to read them. Thanks!
  - Terretta 3y ago
    People often use “do you have sources, I'd like to read them” to imply “links, or that didn't happen”. However, sources* for all of the above are easily found, both coverage as the story is breaking and followups. For example: news campus students chant kill jews classroom locked door https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-colleges-jewish-students-seen-locked-inside-library-anti-israel-protest-moves-building https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-colleges-jewish-students-seen... https://www.foxnews.com/media/chants-calling-murder-jews-shouted-me-cooper-union-protest-student-recalls https://www.foxnews.com/media/chants-calling-murder-jews-sho... https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-stresses-cooper-union-students-were-not-barricaded-inside-library-during-pro-palestinian-rally/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-stresses-cooper-un... Or ... news fbi memo catholic extremists https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-internal-memo-warns-against-221426557.html https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-internal-memo-warns-against-22142... https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/new-report-details-extent-fbis-weaponization-law-enforcement-against https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/new-report-... https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=57648 https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?sto... The ease with which links surface suggests if one genuinely wanted to read sources, one could Google with no effort. * NOTE: Media made broad claims on all of these, and media made narrow “corrections”. It's easy enough to find both types of sources. Asking someone for sources doesn't prove anything. On controversial topics one really needs to “do your own research.”
    - AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
      > People often use “do you have sources, I'd like to read them” to imply “links, or that didn't happen”. Oh, I just hadn't heard of these things. Thanks for the links! Edit --- However, I am now confused by the latter portion of your response > Asking someone for sources doesn't prove anything. I wasn't trying to prove anything, nor did I make any claims. I only wanted to be aware of current events. It does seem to me quite backward to place the burden of proof not on the party making claims, but someone asking to understand why that party made those claims.
      - Izkata 3y ago
        I can understand not hearing of some of them, but it's kinda weird to not have heard of any of them. The next to last one for example was the George Floyd riots in summer 2020.
        AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
        I agree, though I assumed (shame on me) these were in reference to events more current than 4 years ago. But, I’m not always completely in touch with US news or politics either.
        db48x 3y ago
        It’s a problem that has been growing for well over a decade.
        Izkata 3y ago
        Yeah, I first saw it in the mid 2010s, then a short time later when I first watched LEXX, the episode "Girltown" surprised me by mocking some of the things I thought were new - but it aired in 2000.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - mckern 3y ago
    For the race-essentialist practices described by the original poster, Yascha Mounk's "The Identity Trap," published in 2023, and interviews with Coleman Hughes regarding his college experience at Columbia are insightful resources. To delve into the philosophical roots that lead to the type of absurd reasoning mentioned by the original poster, "Cynical Theories" by Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay, released in 2020, is recommended. Despite Lindsay's more recent radical stance, the book provides a critical exploration of these theories. It is also heavy on citations. For the kind of misconduct in higher education described by the original poster, the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) or the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) serve as reliable references. There's no lack of explicit anti-semitism on campus. The discussion around "woke" culture is often muddled by attempts to obscure its existence, framing it as merely an extreme right-wing concern. For those who genuinely want a quick way to challenge their priors regarding "woke" being some kind of "right-wing" thing, you should give this short piece[0] a read. Does it comport with your notion of "right-wing"? If not, you should start questioning those who use "right-wing" as a boogeymen to convince you that there isn't a radical ideology who've created newspeak for their brand of racism, sexism, whatever-ism. [0] https://helenpluckrose.substack.com/p/defining-woke-and-wokeness https://helenpluckrose.substack.com/p/defining-woke-and-woke...
    - AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
      This is an interesting article, thanks for sharing! Nuanced perspectives like these are useful.
  - bnralt 3y ago
    I thought that a Yale speaker giving a public talk disparaging white people where they say they fantasize about shooting white people in the head was pretty extreme[1]. Even more so since it didn’t seem to bother the attendees there, and there was no push back until someone leaked the audio a few months later. If the audio hadn’t leaked, it seems like Yale and the attendees would have just considered that a normal lecture. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/yale-says-lecture-fantasy-about-shooting-white-people-antithetical-school-n1269884 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/yale-says-lecture-fanta...
    - AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
      Certainly extreme, how bizarre
- solumunus 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    LOL. Please don't be so eager to prove OP's point. It is kind of tacky.
  - concordDance 3y ago
    While there's definitely something to be said for ignoring the ridiculous extremes that a world of billions of people can throw up, there's still some much less dramatic effects in our daily lives. For example, at the big company I worked for in the UK if you were to look at our marketing material, documentation and in-app images you'd be forgiven for thinking that the UK was 30% black and 20% South Asian. (East Asians were comparatively neglected, being about as common as white men)
  - itsoktocry 3y ago
    All of those things happened in real life, though. It's the most online people who don't believe these things actually happened. Go to some of the towns where these issues actually occurred and see what people think.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    I agree with both GP and you.
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    Harvard and UNC lost a lawsuit over being racist to Asians. Was that online, too?
- weweersdfsd 3y ago
  Western countries should have paid more attetion on social media as a means of information warfare. It has been so easy for actors from Russia and China to polarize the political landscape. Both Trump supporters and the woke left are just useful idiots implementing their plans. In EU we similarly have both anti-EU "nationalists" and lefties who oppose nuclear and call for open borders, both groups most definitely working for Russia whether they know it or not.
  - colpabar 3y ago
    We’re only allowed to acknowledge foreign influence on the right, even suggesting the left is also susceptible is highly verboten.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      The problem is that there is no need to acknowledge it if it is pushing your side. Why would you call out someone who is actively pushing your agenda? It's very insidious.
  - conradfr 3y ago
    Maybe they just don't do it at the scale Russia does it but: https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
- lynx23 3y ago
  [flagged]
- TheHypnotist 3y ago
  [flagged]
- networkchad 3y ago
  [dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
a_gnostic 3y ago
> discrimination will be solved and atrocities from the past will be forgiven The majority of people that committed these atrocities are dead. Will you stoop to their same level and collectively discriminate against whole swaths of populations based on the actions of some dead people? Guilt by association? An eye for an eye? Great way to perpetuate the madness. How about you focus on individuals, as only they can act and be held accountable? Find the extortion inherent to the system, and remove it so individuals can succeed.

by mrtksn 3y ago

db48x 3y ago

[flagged]

AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
Do you have sources for these events? I’d like to read them. Thanks!
- Terretta 3y ago
  People often use “do you have sources, I'd like to read them” to imply “links, or that didn't happen”. However, sources* for all of the above are easily found, both coverage as the story is breaking and followups. For example: news campus students chant kill jews classroom locked door https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-colleges-jewish-students-seen-locked-inside-library-anti-israel-protest-moves-building https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-colleges-jewish-students-seen... https://www.foxnews.com/media/chants-calling-murder-jews-shouted-me-cooper-union-protest-student-recalls https://www.foxnews.com/media/chants-calling-murder-jews-sho... https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-stresses-cooper-union-students-were-not-barricaded-inside-library-during-pro-palestinian-rally/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-stresses-cooper-un... Or ... news fbi memo catholic extremists https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-internal-memo-warns-against-221426557.html https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-internal-memo-warns-against-22142... https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/new-report-details-extent-fbis-weaponization-law-enforcement-against https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/new-report-... https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=57648 https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?sto... The ease with which links surface suggests if one genuinely wanted to read sources, one could Google with no effort. * NOTE: Media made broad claims on all of these, and media made narrow “corrections”. It's easy enough to find both types of sources. Asking someone for sources doesn't prove anything. On controversial topics one really needs to “do your own research.”
  - AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
    > People often use “do you have sources, I'd like to read them” to imply “links, or that didn't happen”. Oh, I just hadn't heard of these things. Thanks for the links! Edit --- However, I am now confused by the latter portion of your response > Asking someone for sources doesn't prove anything. I wasn't trying to prove anything, nor did I make any claims. I only wanted to be aware of current events. It does seem to me quite backward to place the burden of proof not on the party making claims, but someone asking to understand why that party made those claims.
    - Izkata 3y ago
      I can understand not hearing of some of them, but it's kinda weird to not have heard of any of them. The next to last one for example was the George Floyd riots in summer 2020.
      - AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
        I agree, though I assumed (shame on me) these were in reference to events more current than 4 years ago. But, I’m not always completely in touch with US news or politics either.
        db48x 3y ago
        It’s a problem that has been growing for well over a decade.
        Izkata 3y ago
        Yeah, I first saw it in the mid 2010s, then a short time later when I first watched LEXX, the episode "Girltown" surprised me by mocking some of the things I thought were new - but it aired in 2000.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mckern 3y ago
  For the race-essentialist practices described by the original poster, Yascha Mounk's "The Identity Trap," published in 2023, and interviews with Coleman Hughes regarding his college experience at Columbia are insightful resources. To delve into the philosophical roots that lead to the type of absurd reasoning mentioned by the original poster, "Cynical Theories" by Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay, released in 2020, is recommended. Despite Lindsay's more recent radical stance, the book provides a critical exploration of these theories. It is also heavy on citations. For the kind of misconduct in higher education described by the original poster, the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) or the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) serve as reliable references. There's no lack of explicit anti-semitism on campus. The discussion around "woke" culture is often muddled by attempts to obscure its existence, framing it as merely an extreme right-wing concern. For those who genuinely want a quick way to challenge their priors regarding "woke" being some kind of "right-wing" thing, you should give this short piece[0] a read. Does it comport with your notion of "right-wing"? If not, you should start questioning those who use "right-wing" as a boogeymen to convince you that there isn't a radical ideology who've created newspeak for their brand of racism, sexism, whatever-ism. [0] https://helenpluckrose.substack.com/p/defining-woke-and-wokeness https://helenpluckrose.substack.com/p/defining-woke-and-woke...
  - AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
    This is an interesting article, thanks for sharing! Nuanced perspectives like these are useful.
- bnralt 3y ago
  I thought that a Yale speaker giving a public talk disparaging white people where they say they fantasize about shooting white people in the head was pretty extreme[1]. Even more so since it didn’t seem to bother the attendees there, and there was no push back until someone leaked the audio a few months later. If the audio hadn’t leaked, it seems like Yale and the attendees would have just considered that a normal lecture. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/yale-says-lecture-fantasy-about-shooting-white-people-antithetical-school-n1269884 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/yale-says-lecture-fanta...
  - AirborneUnicorn 3y ago
    Certainly extreme, how bizarre
solumunus 3y ago
[flagged]
- elzbardico 3y ago
  LOL. Please don't be so eager to prove OP's point. It is kind of tacky.
- concordDance 3y ago
  While there's definitely something to be said for ignoring the ridiculous extremes that a world of billions of people can throw up, there's still some much less dramatic effects in our daily lives. For example, at the big company I worked for in the UK if you were to look at our marketing material, documentation and in-app images you'd be forgiven for thinking that the UK was 30% black and 20% South Asian. (East Asians were comparatively neglected, being about as common as white men)
- itsoktocry 3y ago
  All of those things happened in real life, though. It's the most online people who don't believe these things actually happened. Go to some of the towns where these issues actually occurred and see what people think.
- rpmisms 3y ago
  I agree with both GP and you.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  Harvard and UNC lost a lawsuit over being racist to Asians. Was that online, too?
weweersdfsd 3y ago
Western countries should have paid more attetion on social media as a means of information warfare. It has been so easy for actors from Russia and China to polarize the political landscape. Both Trump supporters and the woke left are just useful idiots implementing their plans. In EU we similarly have both anti-EU "nationalists" and lefties who oppose nuclear and call for open borders, both groups most definitely working for Russia whether they know it or not.
- colpabar 3y ago
  We’re only allowed to acknowledge foreign influence on the right, even suggesting the left is also susceptible is highly verboten.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    The problem is that there is no need to acknowledge it if it is pushing your side. Why would you call out someone who is actively pushing your agenda? It's very insidious.
- conradfr 3y ago
  Maybe they just don't do it at the scale Russia does it but: https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
lynx23 3y ago
[flagged]
TheHypnotist 3y ago
[flagged]
networkchad 3y ago
[dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

a_gnostic 3y ago

> discrimination will be solved and atrocities from the past will be forgiven The majority of people that committed these atrocities are dead. Will you stoop to their same level and collectively discriminate against whole swaths of populations based on the actions of some dead people? Guilt by association? An eye for an eye? Great way to perpetuate the madness. How about you focus on individuals, as only they can act and be held accountable? Find the extortion inherent to the system, and remove it so individuals can succeed.