4 ms·

Sometime in the last several years, it became possible to download a windows .iso from microsoft.com and use it in a VM ~forever without activating. (I don’t kn

Sometime in the last several years, it became possible to download a windows .iso from microsoft.com and use it in a VM ~forever without activating. (I don’t know the precise timing because I switched to linux in 2018) Does anyone remember when this shift happened, and what was the justification? Has Microsoft given up on making money on end-user windows licenses, relying instead on OEM licenses and monetizing users with shitty ads?

mike_d 3y ago
It started as part of the modern.ie project, which would distribute Windows VMs to the primarily Mac using web developers at the time so they could test against Internet Explorer, countering the trend of just telling people to switch to Chrome if they complained about broken functionality. The VMs were time locked I believe and would shut down after a few hours (at least the more recent ones do).
nikanj 3y ago
That is such a niche case, I’m not surprised they’re working on the honor system. Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it
- temac 3y ago
  > Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it In the license yes, technically unlicensed windows actually works but you can’t e.g. change the desktop wallpaper. Kind of the same principle applies to the dev vm: it works fine (during its validity period) but it is not licensed for production use.
- alkonaut 3y ago
  > Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it Running a VM also requires you to pay for it. But it's the license that requires it, nothing in the software will stop you from using it.
jorticka 3y ago
Today you can use it for 90 or 180 days. But then you download a new one.
- mavhc 3y ago
  It works for years
- okl 3y ago
  There is some builtin command that you could run to reset the counter. YMMV depending in Windows Version. I think it was `slmgr -rearm` Don't know why they would ship with this...
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yes but you can only rearm a couple of times. At least this is how it used to work
pompino 3y ago
A quick google search reveals that no, Microsoft has not given up on making money on Windows - it generates billions of dollars of revenue. I don't know what you're referring to with the .ISO - I have never heard of this.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  You can download the image from sites like https://uupdump.net/ https://uupdump.net/ and then convert them to an ISO.
- exe34 3y ago
  A second quick Google: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10ISO https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10I...
  - pompino 3y ago
    It is not legal to use it without activating it indefinitely.
    - exe34 3y ago
      I'm not a lawyer, my Google searches don't constitute legal advice.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  Interesting how you didn’t actually ‘quickly Google’ what GP was actually talking about.
  - pompino 3y ago
    Its true that you are able to pirate windows. It is not legal to use it without activating it indefinitely.
- daveoc64 3y ago
  You can download Windows 10 or Windows 11 from Microsoft for free without needing to input any licence keys. If you install it without inputting a product key, it'll be more or less fully functional. There is no time limit to this. https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows11 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows11
pipes 3y ago
I remember this!!! My memory is pretty terrible these days, but it might have been to allow testing different versions of internet explorer?
- feitingen 3y ago
  Yes, testing on Edge and Internet Explorer. The VMs were discontinued recently.
ogurechny 3y ago
It's not recent. Piracy has been a promotional channel for Windows for a long time. When you use Windows, you don't use the alternatives, don't consider the alternatives, and don't change your habits, which makes one even more inclined to stick to Windows. That's why Microsoft is careful to not make it too hard to acquire a copy of Windows. (On the other hand, it makes it hard for hardware makers to offer anything else, and for businesses to switch or elude.) A regular user doesn't care about the OS anyway, and would follow any shepherd. As a wrapper to run browser and multimedia player, Linux was ready for desktop long ago — see famous anti-Linux stunts at Microsoft. Moreover, the leaders today don't profit from software, they profit from data collection and control over their “free” services. The bigger the user numbers, the more money you can get, and when Windows activation can be done by typing some commands on a vanilla system, it is effectively “free” for everyone who wants to take it.
- oohffyvfg 3y ago
  everyone can download windows 11 today, install, and never even activate. you will see "not activated" or something on the bottom right. and you cannot change theme (you can still change it before you go online the first time, or via registry)
- _chu1 3y ago
  The average user probably isn't reinstalling their OS anyways. They don't even really have to rely on this method anymore because I was born in 2008 and grew up with Windows. It actually kind of blew my mind when I realized all *nixes were case sensitive and that they didn't have the dir and cd commands by default, all I knew was how Windows did things and I'm still pretty used to it, as much as I wish I could trust it more but I've tried to lock down my main version (LTSC IoT 2021) as much as possible from MS data collection.
  - notpushkin 3y ago
    nixes do actually have a cd command. I see your point though, I think the reason I'm on Linux now (well, currently macOS actually) is that I've switched way back in middle school or so. Still, I think Windows nowadays is hostile towards both nix and old-time Windows users. I kinda wish ReactOS was more active so that people who are tied to Windows ecosystem have some sane alternative.
numpad0 3y ago
Windows licensing don't always require individual license keys, and they just let you pass sometimes for some hardware configurations and sometimes using BIOS-provided keys. I guess it's working as intended since it only refused to work with me in weird cases, and other times it was tolerable annoyances at time.
daveoc64 3y ago
I know what you're referring to - I think other posters are confusing this with other initiatives Microsoft has like the VMs for web dev or preview releases. In Windows XP, if the system wasn't activated after the initial grace period, you couldn't log in at all. That was obviously a bad UX when something has gone wrong. Windows Vista and Windows 7 loosened things - allowing you to log in and use basic functionality. Later versions of Windows (including Windows 10 and Windows 11) are more or less fully functional without activation (or even inputting a product key). Some personalisation features are disabled and you will have a watermark on the desktop, but other than that it's pretty normal. There is no time limit for this, unlike some of the free virtual machine images Microsoft provides for web dev testing purposes. The only justification I can see is that it does provide a better user experience if there's an activation problem. With Windows 10 and 11 being free upgrades for a huge range of consumers, they know that most people have a licence anyway. Windows 10 and 11 have also emphasised the digital licence model - installing without a product key. This requires that the system is functional without activation, so that you can get online to verify the digital licence.
- bombcar 3y ago
  It’s to the point where I’ve seen the “please activate windows” overlay on things like self checkout machines.
- _chu1 3y ago
  Windows 7 did actually restrict you from logging in at a certain point, I don't exactly remember when but you had to ignore activation for a good bit.
latexr 3y ago
> and what was the justification? Considering all the data collection and dark patterns in Windows, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more lucrative this way. By the way, the thing you mention isn’t just for VMs, you can download Windows from Microsoft and install it on bare metal, having it run indefinitely as long as you’re OK with a watermark on the bottom right.

mike_d 3y ago

It started as part of the modern.ie project, which would distribute Windows VMs to the primarily Mac using web developers at the time so they could test against Internet Explorer, countering the trend of just telling people to switch to Chrome if they complained about broken functionality. The VMs were time locked I believe and would shut down after a few hours (at least the more recent ones do).

nikanj 3y ago

That is such a niche case, I’m not surprised they’re working on the honor system. Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it

temac 3y ago
> Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it In the license yes, technically unlicensed windows actually works but you can’t e.g. change the desktop wallpaper. Kind of the same principle applies to the dev vm: it works fine (during its validity period) but it is not licensed for production use.
alkonaut 3y ago
> Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it Running a VM also requires you to pay for it. But it's the license that requires it, nothing in the software will stop you from using it.

jorticka 3y ago

Today you can use it for 90 or 180 days. But then you download a new one.

mavhc 3y ago
It works for years
okl 3y ago
There is some builtin command that you could run to reset the counter. YMMV depending in Windows Version. I think it was `slmgr -rearm` Don't know why they would ship with this...
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yes but you can only rearm a couple of times. At least this is how it used to work

pompino 3y ago

A quick google search reveals that no, Microsoft has not given up on making money on Windows - it generates billions of dollars of revenue. I don't know what you're referring to with the .ISO - I have never heard of this.

saagarjha 3y ago
You can download the image from sites like https://uupdump.net/ https://uupdump.net/ and then convert them to an ISO.
exe34 3y ago
A second quick Google: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10ISO https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10I...
- pompino 3y ago
  It is not legal to use it without activating it indefinitely.
  - exe34 3y ago
    I'm not a lawyer, my Google searches don't constitute legal advice.
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
Interesting how you didn’t actually ‘quickly Google’ what GP was actually talking about.
- pompino 3y ago
  Its true that you are able to pirate windows. It is not legal to use it without activating it indefinitely.
daveoc64 3y ago
You can download Windows 10 or Windows 11 from Microsoft for free without needing to input any licence keys. If you install it without inputting a product key, it'll be more or less fully functional. There is no time limit to this. https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows11 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows11

pipes 3y ago

I remember this!!! My memory is pretty terrible these days, but it might have been to allow testing different versions of internet explorer?

feitingen 3y ago
Yes, testing on Edge and Internet Explorer. The VMs were discontinued recently.

ogurechny 3y ago

It's not recent. Piracy has been a promotional channel for Windows for a long time. When you use Windows, you don't use the alternatives, don't consider the alternatives, and don't change your habits, which makes one even more inclined to stick to Windows. That's why Microsoft is careful to not make it too hard to acquire a copy of Windows. (On the other hand, it makes it hard for hardware makers to offer anything else, and for businesses to switch or elude.) A regular user doesn't care about the OS anyway, and would follow any shepherd. As a wrapper to run browser and multimedia player, Linux was ready for desktop long ago — see famous anti-Linux stunts at Microsoft. Moreover, the leaders today don't profit from software, they profit from data collection and control over their “free” services. The bigger the user numbers, the more money you can get, and when Windows activation can be done by typing some commands on a vanilla system, it is effectively “free” for everyone who wants to take it.

oohffyvfg 3y ago
everyone can download windows 11 today, install, and never even activate. you will see "not activated" or something on the bottom right. and you cannot change theme (you can still change it before you go online the first time, or via registry)
_chu1 3y ago
The average user probably isn't reinstalling their OS anyways. They don't even really have to rely on this method anymore because I was born in 2008 and grew up with Windows. It actually kind of blew my mind when I realized all *nixes were case sensitive and that they didn't have the dir and cd commands by default, all I knew was how Windows did things and I'm still pretty used to it, as much as I wish I could trust it more but I've tried to lock down my main version (LTSC IoT 2021) as much as possible from MS data collection.
- notpushkin 3y ago
  nixes do actually have a cd command. I see your point though, I think the reason I'm on Linux now (well, currently macOS actually) is that I've switched way back in middle school or so. Still, I think Windows nowadays is hostile towards both nix and old-time Windows users. I kinda wish ReactOS was more active so that people who are tied to Windows ecosystem have some sane alternative.

numpad0 3y ago

Windows licensing don't always require individual license keys, and they just let you pass sometimes for some hardware configurations and sometimes using BIOS-provided keys. I guess it's working as intended since it only refused to work with me in weird cases, and other times it was tolerable annoyances at time.

daveoc64 3y ago

I know what you're referring to - I think other posters are confusing this with other initiatives Microsoft has like the VMs for web dev or preview releases. In Windows XP, if the system wasn't activated after the initial grace period, you couldn't log in at all. That was obviously a bad UX when something has gone wrong. Windows Vista and Windows 7 loosened things - allowing you to log in and use basic functionality. Later versions of Windows (including Windows 10 and Windows 11) are more or less fully functional without activation (or even inputting a product key). Some personalisation features are disabled and you will have a watermark on the desktop, but other than that it's pretty normal. There is no time limit for this, unlike some of the free virtual machine images Microsoft provides for web dev testing purposes. The only justification I can see is that it does provide a better user experience if there's an activation problem. With Windows 10 and 11 being free upgrades for a huge range of consumers, they know that most people have a licence anyway. Windows 10 and 11 have also emphasised the digital licence model - installing without a product key. This requires that the system is functional without activation, so that you can get online to verify the digital licence.

bombcar 3y ago
It’s to the point where I’ve seen the “please activate windows” overlay on things like self checkout machines.
_chu1 3y ago
Windows 7 did actually restrict you from logging in at a certain point, I don't exactly remember when but you had to ignore activation for a good bit.

latexr 3y ago

> and what was the justification? Considering all the data collection and dark patterns in Windows, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more lucrative this way. By the way, the thing you mention isn’t just for VMs, you can download Windows from Microsoft and install it on bare metal, having it run indefinitely as long as you’re OK with a watermark on the bottom right.