3 ms·

> Surely there is a middle ground. "Generate a scene of a group of friends enjoying lunch in the park." -> Totally expect racial and gender diversity in the out

> Surely there is a middle ground. "Generate a scene of a group of friends enjoying lunch in the park." -> Totally expect racial and gender diversity in the output. Do we expect this because diverse groups are realistically most common or because we wish that they were? For example only some 10% of marriages are interracial, but commercials on TV would lead you to believe it’s 30% or higher. The goal for commercials of course is to appeal to a wide audience without alienating anyone, not to reflect real world stats. What’s the goal for an image generator or a search engine? Depends who is using it and for what, so you can’t ever make everyone happy with one system unless you expose lots of control surface toggles. Those toggles could help users “own” output more, but generally companies wouldn’t want to expose them because it could shed light on proprietary backends, or just take away the magic from interacting with the electric oracles.

paulddraper 3y ago
And most women are friends with mostly women, and most men are friends with mostly men.
jjjjj55555 3y ago
Also, these tools are used world-wide and "diversity" means different things in different places. Somehow it's always only the US ideal of diversity that gets shipped abroad.
- photonthug 3y ago
  Yeah, someone else mentioned Tokyo which is not going to have as much variety among park visitors as NYC. But then again neither will Colorado (or almost anywhere else!) be as diverse. Some genius at corporate is probably scheming about making image generation as location-sensitive as search is, ostensibly to provide utility but really to perpetuate echo chambers and search bubbles. I wish computing in general would move back towards user-controlled rather than guess-what-I-mean and the resulting politicization, but it seems that ship has sailed.
- felipeerias 3y ago
  US companies systematically push US cultural beliefs and expectations. People in the US probably don’t notice it any more, but it’s pretty obvious from those of us on the receiving end of US cultural domination. This fact is an unavoidable consequence of the socioeconomic realities of the world, but it obviously clashes with these companies’ public statements and positions.
  - jjjjj55555 3y ago
    Yes but it's especially cynical in this case because the belief their pushing is that diversity matters, that biases need to be overcome, and that all people need to be represented. Claiming all of that but then shoving your own biases down the rest of the world's throat while not representing their people in any way is especially cynical in my opinion. It undermines the whole thing.
    - photonthug 3y ago
      Hypocrisy is an especially destructive kind of betrayal, which is why the crooked cop or the pedo priest are so disappointing. Would be nice if companies would merely exploit us without all the extra insult of telling us they are changing the world / it’s for our own good / it’s what we asked for/, etc
    - philwelch 3y ago
      This is the exact same mindset that invented the word “Latinx”. Compress most of an entire hemisphere of ethnic and cultural diversity down to the vague concept of “Latino”, notice that Spanish is a gendered language so the word “Latino” is also gendered, completely forget that you already have the gender neutral English word “Latin”, invent a new word that virtually none of the people to whom it applies actually identifies with, and then shamelessly use it all the time.
networkchad 3y ago
[dead]
nurtbo 3y ago
19% of new marriages in 2019 (and likely to rise): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_... Plus, it’s still a recent change: Loving v Virginia (legalized interracial marriage across US) was decided in 1967.

paulddraper 3y ago

And most women are friends with mostly women, and most men are friends with mostly men.

jjjjj55555 3y ago

Also, these tools are used world-wide and "diversity" means different things in different places. Somehow it's always only the US ideal of diversity that gets shipped abroad.

photonthug 3y ago
Yeah, someone else mentioned Tokyo which is not going to have as much variety among park visitors as NYC. But then again neither will Colorado (or almost anywhere else!) be as diverse. Some genius at corporate is probably scheming about making image generation as location-sensitive as search is, ostensibly to provide utility but really to perpetuate echo chambers and search bubbles. I wish computing in general would move back towards user-controlled rather than guess-what-I-mean and the resulting politicization, but it seems that ship has sailed.
felipeerias 3y ago
US companies systematically push US cultural beliefs and expectations. People in the US probably don’t notice it any more, but it’s pretty obvious from those of us on the receiving end of US cultural domination. This fact is an unavoidable consequence of the socioeconomic realities of the world, but it obviously clashes with these companies’ public statements and positions.
- jjjjj55555 3y ago
  Yes but it's especially cynical in this case because the belief their pushing is that diversity matters, that biases need to be overcome, and that all people need to be represented. Claiming all of that but then shoving your own biases down the rest of the world's throat while not representing their people in any way is especially cynical in my opinion. It undermines the whole thing.
  - photonthug 3y ago
    Hypocrisy is an especially destructive kind of betrayal, which is why the crooked cop or the pedo priest are so disappointing. Would be nice if companies would merely exploit us without all the extra insult of telling us they are changing the world / it’s for our own good / it’s what we asked for/, etc
  - philwelch 3y ago
    This is the exact same mindset that invented the word “Latinx”. Compress most of an entire hemisphere of ethnic and cultural diversity down to the vague concept of “Latino”, notice that Spanish is a gendered language so the word “Latino” is also gendered, completely forget that you already have the gender neutral English word “Latin”, invent a new word that virtually none of the people to whom it applies actually identifies with, and then shamelessly use it all the time.

networkchad 3y ago

[dead]

nurtbo 3y ago

19% of new marriages in 2019 (and likely to rise): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_... Plus, it’s still a recent change: Loving v Virginia (legalized interracial marriage across US) was decided in 1967.