5 ms·

First Framework Laptop 16 shipments and a $499 Framework Laptop

86 points by nfriedly 3y ago

nfriedly 3y ago
It's really closer to $600 after you add RAM, storage, and a Wi-Fi card, but still not a bad deal overall.
- jdboyd 3y ago
  True, but many a computer I've bought (including my last 2 non Mac laptops), I replaced the RAM and SSD immediately, so I didn't benefit from them being included (other than being able to prove the machine works upon delivery before turning it back off for the upgrade).
- yonatan8070 3y ago
  Not necessarily, my current 8th Gen Intel laptop is doing fine, but if I were to upgrade, I'd probably want to carry the Wi-Fi (Intel AX200), 16GB of RAM, and the SSD to the new one (Both the RAM and Wi-Fi have been upgraded by me from the original ones)
  - nfriedly 3y ago
    Fair point - although I'm guessing you originally paid more than $100 for those parts, so it'd still be over $600 total, just spread out over time :)
mixmastamyk 3y ago
I've been a big framework fan, but have had to hit the pause button. They haven't updated the firmware for some models for ~two years, which is not acceptable. We have two and the AMD still wakes up frequently (latest fw and kernel, not as bad as before) and all are still vulnerable to LogoFail as far as I know.
- Always42 3y ago
  this is sad, I have been debating buying a framework simply because I support there mission. But, I type this from a apple MacBook that I haven't charged in ~36hrs
- beanjuiceII 3y ago
  Windows or Linux?
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Linux kernel 6.7.4, though I've only been on it a few days. Came directly from 6.6.x. I think 6.7 has improved it further, but I won't know for a few more days. Fedora dnf says 6.7.5 is coming today.
- washadjeffmad 3y ago
  I've kept an eye on the github to see if firmware has matured to the point of promise for their second-hand mainboard market, and so far, it has not. As you say, wake up and sleep are still broken, making them poorer options for Steam Deck clones than Panda or other x86 boards. It's just not in a good enough state to pay to advertise capability that isn't being provided. They're not terrible, and I hope they work it out, but the overselling and paid marketing campaigns feels very dishonest.
- jarbus 3y ago
  Been thinking about buying a framework but haven’t heard of this. Have they ever said why they haven’t updated it?
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Still testing. But I got the impression in community threads they don’t have enough people on it, and/or insyde is not helping enough. Hard to know from outside.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
codedokode 3y ago
Why are they making 13-inch laptops? It looks like a toy: small keyboard with tiny keys, tiny screen which cannot display IDE, tiny touchpad. If you want something small and lightweight to take with you, isn't it better to buy a 13-inch tablet then?
- throawayonthe 3y ago
  [dead]
- Our_Benefactors 3y ago
  You can absolutely run an IDE in 13”, even if it’s not the most comfortable experience. And you can always dock and output to a large external monitor.
- znpy 3y ago
  13 inches is a very popular laptop size and a good compromise between what used to be the 12” size and the 14” size. 13” tables are just weird uncomfortable laptops that lack a keyboard.
- windowsrookie 3y ago
  "Why are they making 13-inch laptops?" Because some of us travel? "isn't it better to buy a 13-inch tablet then?" No. Tablets are for consuming media and are terrible at anything else. Plus with a keyboard case they weigh more than at 13" laptop.
  - seabass-labrax 3y ago
    > Tablets are for consuming media and are terrible at anything else They are not necessarily great for consuming media, either: in my experience, tablet screens get mucky very quickly, not least because a tablet's primary mode of interaction is rubbing your fingers on it. I think tablets are nice devices, but I wouldn't buy one in preference to a laptop unless I had a specific use-case in mind.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Isn't the keyboard and touchpad exactly the same as on the 16" ? I assume they're taking the same approach as Apple, and have the same input components but just padd around on the larger models. The screen resolution is a tad too low on the framework laptops, but 3~4K would allow for enough pixels to reduce screen elements comfortably. At lrast that worked pretty well with the macbook pro, 13" at max resolution was good for 99% of my work.
roughly 3y ago
I really appreciate them highlighting both the refurbs and the b-stock this way. My 13" framework is a refurb - I've had no problems with it, and I'm glad for the opportunity to reduce or at least amortize the production costs. I'm really looking forward to when they get the marketplace up for second-hand parts, but I love this as part of their overall commitment to reducing waste & encouraging repair and reuse.
pixard 3y ago
Taking them an awfully long time to start shipping to more EU countries. At this rate I doubt I'll ever buy one. Not really keen on using freight forwarding services and dealing with all that in case of needing support.

86 points by nfriedly 3y ago

nfriedly 3y ago

It's really closer to $600 after you add RAM, storage, and a Wi-Fi card, but still not a bad deal overall.

jdboyd 3y ago
True, but many a computer I've bought (including my last 2 non Mac laptops), I replaced the RAM and SSD immediately, so I didn't benefit from them being included (other than being able to prove the machine works upon delivery before turning it back off for the upgrade).
yonatan8070 3y ago
Not necessarily, my current 8th Gen Intel laptop is doing fine, but if I were to upgrade, I'd probably want to carry the Wi-Fi (Intel AX200), 16GB of RAM, and the SSD to the new one (Both the RAM and Wi-Fi have been upgraded by me from the original ones)
- nfriedly 3y ago
  Fair point - although I'm guessing you originally paid more than $100 for those parts, so it'd still be over $600 total, just spread out over time :)

mixmastamyk 3y ago

I've been a big framework fan, but have had to hit the pause button. They haven't updated the firmware for some models for ~two years, which is not acceptable. We have two and the AMD still wakes up frequently (latest fw and kernel, not as bad as before) and all are still vulnerable to LogoFail as far as I know.

Always42 3y ago
this is sad, I have been debating buying a framework simply because I support there mission. But, I type this from a apple MacBook that I haven't charged in ~36hrs
beanjuiceII 3y ago
Windows or Linux?
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Linux kernel 6.7.4, though I've only been on it a few days. Came directly from 6.6.x. I think 6.7 has improved it further, but I won't know for a few more days. Fedora dnf says 6.7.5 is coming today.
washadjeffmad 3y ago
I've kept an eye on the github to see if firmware has matured to the point of promise for their second-hand mainboard market, and so far, it has not. As you say, wake up and sleep are still broken, making them poorer options for Steam Deck clones than Panda or other x86 boards. It's just not in a good enough state to pay to advertise capability that isn't being provided. They're not terrible, and I hope they work it out, but the overselling and paid marketing campaigns feels very dishonest.
jarbus 3y ago
Been thinking about buying a framework but haven’t heard of this. Have they ever said why they haven’t updated it?
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Still testing. But I got the impression in community threads they don’t have enough people on it, and/or insyde is not helping enough. Hard to know from outside.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago

codedokode 3y ago

Why are they making 13-inch laptops? It looks like a toy: small keyboard with tiny keys, tiny screen which cannot display IDE, tiny touchpad. If you want something small and lightweight to take with you, isn't it better to buy a 13-inch tablet then?

throawayonthe 3y ago
[dead]
Our_Benefactors 3y ago
You can absolutely run an IDE in 13”, even if it’s not the most comfortable experience. And you can always dock and output to a large external monitor.
znpy 3y ago
13 inches is a very popular laptop size and a good compromise between what used to be the 12” size and the 14” size. 13” tables are just weird uncomfortable laptops that lack a keyboard.
windowsrookie 3y ago
"Why are they making 13-inch laptops?" Because some of us travel? "isn't it better to buy a 13-inch tablet then?" No. Tablets are for consuming media and are terrible at anything else. Plus with a keyboard case they weigh more than at 13" laptop.
- seabass-labrax 3y ago
  > Tablets are for consuming media and are terrible at anything else They are not necessarily great for consuming media, either: in my experience, tablet screens get mucky very quickly, not least because a tablet's primary mode of interaction is rubbing your fingers on it. I think tablets are nice devices, but I wouldn't buy one in preference to a laptop unless I had a specific use-case in mind.
makeitdouble 3y ago
Isn't the keyboard and touchpad exactly the same as on the 16" ? I assume they're taking the same approach as Apple, and have the same input components but just padd around on the larger models. The screen resolution is a tad too low on the framework laptops, but 3~4K would allow for enough pixels to reduce screen elements comfortably. At lrast that worked pretty well with the macbook pro, 13" at max resolution was good for 99% of my work.

roughly 3y ago

I really appreciate them highlighting both the refurbs and the b-stock this way. My 13" framework is a refurb - I've had no problems with it, and I'm glad for the opportunity to reduce or at least amortize the production costs. I'm really looking forward to when they get the marketplace up for second-hand parts, but I love this as part of their overall commitment to reducing waste & encouraging repair and reuse.

pixard 3y ago

Taking them an awfully long time to start shipping to more EU countries. At this rate I doubt I'll ever buy one. Not really keen on using freight forwarding services and dealing with all that in case of needing support.