5 ms·

Last time I discussed (results from a similar study) this with some higher ups, their knee-jerk reactions was: "If they managed to deliver as much in 4 days as

Last time I discussed (results from a similar study) this with some higher ups, their knee-jerk reactions was: "If they managed to deliver as much in 4 days as they previously did in 5 days, then it sounds like they were slacking off more prior to the experiment." I think that for some leaders, no data in the world is going to convince them that one day less of butts in the seat can be a positive thing. They'll forever chase the idea of maximizing 5-day workweeks, and that's that.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Change will probably come when they age out
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Progress occurs one funeral at a time. - Max Planck
grecy 3y ago
That sounds like a very clear sign it's time for you to fire your boss and find a better one.
- deprecative 3y ago
  When 99.9%+ of all jobs worth having will be 5 day work weeks it's irrelevant. Then you have how utter garbage the job market is right now and that's a bad time waiting to happen. People really need to get over their bootstraps fantasy and start realizing the problem is systemic.
  - grecy 3y ago
    I know many people working in tech who work 3 or 4 days a week. My last programming job nearly 10 years ago I was working 4 days a week, and at my job before that there were 3 programmers who were 4 days a week. Simply list it as a requirement when searching for jobs and go from there. It's all negotiable, if you work at it.
    - deprecative 3y ago
      How do you "list it as a requirement"? This seems like a great way to get offers pulled or not extended. Happy to find out what magic you know.
      - hirvi74 3y ago
        I assume if one is talented enough, then he or she holds the most power in any negotiation. I, for one, am not talented at what I do, and have no power in any negotiation. I couldn't even negotiate salary, since I offer literally nothing no one else couldn't offer. If the workplace mirrored the animal kingdom, I am more of the type of animal that feasts on carrion than hunts for fresh prey. Thus, I would never be able to swing such a deal. However, I do hope those that can swing such a deal do so, so that it may systemically trickle down to us scavenger type.
      - grecy 3y ago
        There is no magic, you just state what you're looking for early in the process and go from there. If you absolutely can not relocate, then remote is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is not remote. If you absolutely can not take a pay cut, then a certain salary is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is less than you currently make. If you absolutely want to work four days a week, then part time is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is not four days a week.
        johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Yeah, but it's still a matter of supply, no? It'd be like me seeking 1m/year salary as someone with 5 years of experience and no clout. I'm sure there are 1m/yr salary jobs, but I' m nowhere near qualified enough to be taken seriously there. It's likewise in how I was willing to relocate 5 years ago for my first job. Because I wanted to take any opportunity and many others would pass me over. There's enough supply and enough talent on my end that I no longer need to relocate (plus I lucked out into a house. I'd need to literally triple my salary to justify moving and maintaining this kind of QoL if I was recruited into Silicon Valley), but I haven't seen the same prospects with part time, decently compensated tech work. I've looked out of curiosity due to long term plans, but it doesn't seem to be publicly advertised.
thegrim33 3y ago
"All the data in the world" is an article like this that refers to a multiple year old study, but of course refuses to link to the study, which describes a grand total of 31 "organizations" that supposedly switched to 4 day work week? (I guess "89% of participants" sounds a lot more convincing as a headline) An article that refers to a study, which is positive about a 4 day work week, which was written by someone who works for a company that advocates for 4 day work weeks? A study which was literally written by somebody who over 30 years has made it their career to push this idea, and who directly financially benefits from pushing the idea? Written by somebody who profits by selling multiple books about how "overworked" Americans are? Man, they've sure convinced me. I guess the millions/billions of companies across the world that don't do 4 day work week just really have no idea what they're doing. Those 36 data points provided by the most biased author you could possibly find really is all the data in the world.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Genuine question: What would convince you?
hirvi74 3y ago
Perhaps those higher ups are right? I know I slack off, but I also have absolutely no incentive not too. I have always been told that the reward for digging the biggest hole is a bigger shovel. If higher ups want to play a shitty game, then don't get mad at a shitty reward.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Right for the wrong reasons. If we had a 7 day workweek and it's not as efficient, it's clearly because they are slacking off and have no team spirit. Slacking off is the uncharitable way to describe at best middling returns and at worst burnout. no one's 100% 24/7. That's why more demanding jobs have even less hours, like firefighters or athletes. The brain is a bit more "durable", but is still just another muscle at the end of the day.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago

Change will probably come when they age out

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Progress occurs one funeral at a time. - Max Planck

grecy 3y ago

That sounds like a very clear sign it's time for you to fire your boss and find a better one.

deprecative 3y ago
When 99.9%+ of all jobs worth having will be 5 day work weeks it's irrelevant. Then you have how utter garbage the job market is right now and that's a bad time waiting to happen. People really need to get over their bootstraps fantasy and start realizing the problem is systemic.
- grecy 3y ago
  I know many people working in tech who work 3 or 4 days a week. My last programming job nearly 10 years ago I was working 4 days a week, and at my job before that there were 3 programmers who were 4 days a week. Simply list it as a requirement when searching for jobs and go from there. It's all negotiable, if you work at it.
  - deprecative 3y ago
    How do you "list it as a requirement"? This seems like a great way to get offers pulled or not extended. Happy to find out what magic you know.
    - hirvi74 3y ago
      I assume if one is talented enough, then he or she holds the most power in any negotiation. I, for one, am not talented at what I do, and have no power in any negotiation. I couldn't even negotiate salary, since I offer literally nothing no one else couldn't offer. If the workplace mirrored the animal kingdom, I am more of the type of animal that feasts on carrion than hunts for fresh prey. Thus, I would never be able to swing such a deal. However, I do hope those that can swing such a deal do so, so that it may systemically trickle down to us scavenger type.
    - grecy 3y ago
      There is no magic, you just state what you're looking for early in the process and go from there. If you absolutely can not relocate, then remote is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is not remote. If you absolutely can not take a pay cut, then a certain salary is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is less than you currently make. If you absolutely want to work four days a week, then part time is a condition, and you will turn down any offer that is not four days a week.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Yeah, but it's still a matter of supply, no? It'd be like me seeking 1m/year salary as someone with 5 years of experience and no clout. I'm sure there are 1m/yr salary jobs, but I' m nowhere near qualified enough to be taken seriously there. It's likewise in how I was willing to relocate 5 years ago for my first job. Because I wanted to take any opportunity and many others would pass me over. There's enough supply and enough talent on my end that I no longer need to relocate (plus I lucked out into a house. I'd need to literally triple my salary to justify moving and maintaining this kind of QoL if I was recruited into Silicon Valley), but I haven't seen the same prospects with part time, decently compensated tech work. I've looked out of curiosity due to long term plans, but it doesn't seem to be publicly advertised.

thegrim33 3y ago

"All the data in the world" is an article like this that refers to a multiple year old study, but of course refuses to link to the study, which describes a grand total of 31 "organizations" that supposedly switched to 4 day work week? (I guess "89% of participants" sounds a lot more convincing as a headline) An article that refers to a study, which is positive about a 4 day work week, which was written by someone who works for a company that advocates for 4 day work weeks? A study which was literally written by somebody who over 30 years has made it their career to push this idea, and who directly financially benefits from pushing the idea? Written by somebody who profits by selling multiple books about how "overworked" Americans are? Man, they've sure convinced me. I guess the millions/billions of companies across the world that don't do 4 day work week just really have no idea what they're doing. Those 36 data points provided by the most biased author you could possibly find really is all the data in the world.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Genuine question: What would convince you?

hirvi74 3y ago

Perhaps those higher ups are right? I know I slack off, but I also have absolutely no incentive not too. I have always been told that the reward for digging the biggest hole is a bigger shovel. If higher ups want to play a shitty game, then don't get mad at a shitty reward.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
Right for the wrong reasons. If we had a 7 day workweek and it's not as efficient, it's clearly because they are slacking off and have no team spirit. Slacking off is the uncharitable way to describe at best middling returns and at worst burnout. no one's 100% 24/7. That's why more demanding jobs have even less hours, like firefighters or athletes. The brain is a bit more "durable", but is still just another muscle at the end of the day.