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Every single person I converted to using Signal stopped using it when SMS support was removed. HN tends to be a younger crowd whose peers cycled through a numb

by pavon 3y ago

Every single person I converted to using Signal stopped using it when SMS support was removed. HN tends to be a younger crowd whose peers cycled through a number of social-networking and messaging apps as popularity waxed and waned. But older generations don't see any compelling reason why they should bother splitting their conversations over multiple apps, when literally everyone with a mobile has texting. Being a drop-in replacement for texting, so they could have additional features without additional hassle was the only thing that convinced them to switch and now it is gone. I've given up evangelizing Signal, and resigned to the idea that cross-platform RCS is the only thing that will bring encryption to the majority of my contacts.

godelski 3y ago
Yeah I think this was a bad move for Signal, but I didn't see that happen to my group fortunately. In Signal's defense, my understanding is that this was really an Apple thing. That Apple only lets iMessage connect to SMS so the apps were differing significantly. I also get the fatigue. Moxie said centralized because they needed to move faster. But Signal has always moved very slow, so it does feel off. But to be fair, it's not like most messenger apps do much.
- zchrykng 3y ago
  They were talking about on Android. Signal supporting SMS was never a thing on iOS.
  - godelski 3y ago
    That's my point though. That it is harder to maintain a feature that not only doesn't exist on both development platforms, but can't work on one of them. Signal is only like 42 people.[0] You gotta triage a lot of stuff. I wish the feature still existed, but I can totally understand why they did that. I'm pretty sure not all 42 people are programmers. [0] https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824506840/202342569349300244/full https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824...
- pavon 3y ago
  > I also get the fatigue. Agreed. I put most of the blame on Google for deciding to implement RCS as a feature of Messages, rather than an Android OS library/service that any developer could use like SMS.
rootusrootus 3y ago
> HN tends to be a younger crowd whose peers cycled through a number of social-networking and messaging apps as popularity waxed and waned. But older generations What is your definition of younger and older? Anybody born in the 70s or later experienced an ongoing procession of instant messaging choices. I would tell you it is precisely that experience that informs my apathy towards the latest and greatest Hot Thing, and makes me appreciate boring old SMS (and by extension, iMessage) that I know will just work with anyone I meet.
nicolas_17 3y ago
Are you from the USA? I don't like splitting my conversations over multiple apps when literally everyone with a mobile in Argentina has WhatsApp. SMS costs money and having it in the same app as a free messaging platform sounds risky :P
- godelski 3y ago
  > I don't like splitting my conversations over multiple apps Most people don't. The issue isn't what country I live in (fuck man, I got SMS, WhatsApp, Signal, Slack, KakaoTalk, and I've even forced some people to not contact me through some apps so I could reduce). You missed the actual content of the message about how there is a reasoning for this change beyond Signal. You got to be careful with blame because there are often things upstream that cause things downstream but the fingers are often pointed at what's downstream, not upstream. We can't resolve problems if we only focus on downstream. You have to consider both. I hate it too, because it is the mental version of using multiple apps. But that's the way things are and I want to actually reduce the problems, not run around with a box of bandaids.
jdminhbg 3y ago
> resigned to the idea that cross-platform RCS is the only thing that will bring encryption to the majority of my contacts I thought RCS explicitly wasn’t E2EE?
- pavon 3y ago
  The current standard isn't. Google uses non-standard E2EE, and they and Apple are working on getting it standardized.
  - otterley 3y ago
    If so, how will they meet China's demand that all mobile devices support RCS, presumably because it doesn't employ E2EE?
    - B5F91083 3y ago
      iOS already has different behaviours inside China compared to elsewhere, for example showing Taiwan's flag or the nine-dash line in the south sea in Maps app. Based on how those work, the answer is likely: When a SIM from a mainland mobile company is in the device, E2EE is disabled.

by pavon 3y ago

godelski 3y ago

Yeah I think this was a bad move for Signal, but I didn't see that happen to my group fortunately. In Signal's defense, my understanding is that this was really an Apple thing. That Apple only lets iMessage connect to SMS so the apps were differing significantly. I also get the fatigue. Moxie said centralized because they needed to move faster. But Signal has always moved very slow, so it does feel off. But to be fair, it's not like most messenger apps do much.

zchrykng 3y ago
They were talking about on Android. Signal supporting SMS was never a thing on iOS.
- godelski 3y ago
  That's my point though. That it is harder to maintain a feature that not only doesn't exist on both development platforms, but can't work on one of them. Signal is only like 42 people.[0] You gotta triage a lot of stuff. I wish the feature still existed, but I can totally understand why they did that. I'm pretty sure not all 42 people are programmers. [0] https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824506840/202342569349300244/full https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824...
pavon 3y ago
> I also get the fatigue. Agreed. I put most of the blame on Google for deciding to implement RCS as a feature of Messages, rather than an Android OS library/service that any developer could use like SMS.

rootusrootus 3y ago

> HN tends to be a younger crowd whose peers cycled through a number of social-networking and messaging apps as popularity waxed and waned. But older generations What is your definition of younger and older? Anybody born in the 70s or later experienced an ongoing procession of instant messaging choices. I would tell you it is precisely that experience that informs my apathy towards the latest and greatest Hot Thing, and makes me appreciate boring old SMS (and by extension, iMessage) that I know will just work with anyone I meet.

nicolas_17 3y ago

Are you from the USA? I don't like splitting my conversations over multiple apps when literally everyone with a mobile in Argentina has WhatsApp. SMS costs money and having it in the same app as a free messaging platform sounds risky :P

godelski 3y ago
> I don't like splitting my conversations over multiple apps Most people don't. The issue isn't what country I live in (fuck man, I got SMS, WhatsApp, Signal, Slack, KakaoTalk, and I've even forced some people to not contact me through some apps so I could reduce). You missed the actual content of the message about how there is a reasoning for this change beyond Signal. You got to be careful with blame because there are often things upstream that cause things downstream but the fingers are often pointed at what's downstream, not upstream. We can't resolve problems if we only focus on downstream. You have to consider both. I hate it too, because it is the mental version of using multiple apps. But that's the way things are and I want to actually reduce the problems, not run around with a box of bandaids.

jdminhbg 3y ago

> resigned to the idea that cross-platform RCS is the only thing that will bring encryption to the majority of my contacts I thought RCS explicitly wasn’t E2EE?

pavon 3y ago
The current standard isn't. Google uses non-standard E2EE, and they and Apple are working on getting it standardized.
- otterley 3y ago
  If so, how will they meet China's demand that all mobile devices support RCS, presumably because it doesn't employ E2EE?
  - B5F91083 3y ago
    iOS already has different behaviours inside China compared to elsewhere, for example showing Taiwan's flag or the nine-dash line in the south sea in Maps app. Based on how those work, the answer is likely: When a SIM from a mainland mobile company is in the device, E2EE is disabled.