6 ms·

> Same way CCTV cameras are used in retail Back around 2003 a coworker thought she left her credit card at a store (I think Target). She called them, they ask

by dunham 3y ago

> Same way CCTV cameras are used in retail Back around 2003 a coworker thought she left her credit card at a store (I think Target). She called them, they asked her to read the number off of the receipt, pulled up the video of her transaction, and told her she had put the card back in her wallet/purse. I was surprised they had that level of integration and can't imagine what they've got these days.

crazygringo 3y ago
Wow. On the one hand, I'm not surprised at all that there are security people in the company that can instantly pull up security cam footage of a register from the receipt number. That makes total sense. But on the other hand, I never would have guessed that a customer service rep would have access to the system -- or even that if they had to transfer it to the security department, that the security department would be allowed to use the footage for anything customer-facing like that. Still, that's kinda cool and helpful! Assuming it can't be used for any kind of nefarious invasion-of-privacy uses...
- infecto 3y ago
  If I left something at a store I would be calling the store itself which I think to this day will eventually get you an internal store employee. Seems like that would be an easy bounce to the security person.
- araes 3y ago
  There's a lot of ATMs in Targets. If they have that much watching, I think I want to stand with my hand over the buttons now. Although someone could probably watch your fingers at the checkout lane put in your pin. Camera script to correlate fingers to access pins automatedly. Machine vision is so much more advanced. Four finger movements, four numbers, tada, debit card access. I could probably write that with ML Kit. Correlated to your exact receipt, purchases, and time of purchase (with enough fidelity to say "you put your card in your pocket at ##:##"). Track your card through the system, and what bank/clearing house is passing the transaction. When did this exact number amount of money go through and where did the lines send the data? What account was the final transaction processed through?
  - otteromkram 3y ago
    I usually put my wallet over the touchpad to block it. Maybe I'll mess up on the PIN, too, to throw people off (although that's probably caused by not being able to see the numbers). They could also use sound to detect the keypress, but I'm hoping any legit retailer hasn't gone that far, yet.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  YMMV, as not familiar with all retail, but typically CCTV footage review is limited to a select group of people. I'd guess your friend was forwarded to an asset protection person at the store or similar. Also, in this case, there's not much sensitive about "we saw you put it in your purse." It'd be a different story if your friend had asked "Did you see what 4-number code I entered on the PIN pad?"
- RCitronsBroker 3y ago
  this is absolutely impressive, but target is in no way representative of the avg. level of surveillance/LP tech in retail. they are notorious for being at the leading edge of technology and dedication. Their forensics actually did contract govt work at some point in time.
wcunning 3y ago
Meanwhile, someone backs into the taillight on my truck in the parking lot of the local Kroger, and they have zero surveillance footage showing it, despite giving them a date and a 40 minute window of shopping based on my receipt timestamp. sigh
- doubled112 3y ago
  You can't steal from them once you're out of the store. There's little business benefit to watch the parking lot.
  - phone8675309 3y ago
    And a huge liability - you can't prove that an employee damaged your car if you don't have video of the parking lot
  - droopyEyelids 3y ago
    This answer is too simple. For example, target has incredible surveillance of the parking lot so that they can correlate thieves with vehicles. I think the real answer is that Kroger simply does not take operations seriously. Theres evidence for this in their app, their self checkout experience, how often sales are not applied, the quality of their produce, how dirty the stores are, the way their merger and acquisition stores are all 1/3 integrated, and more im sure
- Suppafly 3y ago
  I had someone massively door ding me at Kroger like 15 years ago, and talked to their security and they had cameras but the angle didn't show enough of the door ding to definitely say the person parked next to me did it. I suppose it depends on your specific location, but it's not like they don't have surveillance at all.
neilv 3y ago
Target is known for having forensics labs (which they sometimes loan out to law enforcement) and sophisticated surveillance. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2006/01/29/retailer-target-branches-out-into-police-work-span-classbankheadminneapolis-forensics-lab-donations-help-law-enforcement-agenciesspan/32273b10-40fa-4db4-a4a1-88b77eafb891/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2006/01/29/r... https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/csi-walmart/521565/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/csi-w...
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Neat! TIL It's hard to keep competency from developing when you have (frequent, sophisticated attacker) + (financial motive to fund countermeasures and resourcing). (Albeit some retail still seems to find a way)
crtasm 3y ago
I assume the end to this story is: they were proven correct when she found her card?

by dunham 3y ago

crazygringo 3y ago

Wow. On the one hand, I'm not surprised at all that there are security people in the company that can instantly pull up security cam footage of a register from the receipt number. That makes total sense. But on the other hand, I never would have guessed that a customer service rep would have access to the system -- or even that if they had to transfer it to the security department, that the security department would be allowed to use the footage for anything customer-facing like that. Still, that's kinda cool and helpful! Assuming it can't be used for any kind of nefarious invasion-of-privacy uses...

infecto 3y ago
If I left something at a store I would be calling the store itself which I think to this day will eventually get you an internal store employee. Seems like that would be an easy bounce to the security person.
araes 3y ago
There's a lot of ATMs in Targets. If they have that much watching, I think I want to stand with my hand over the buttons now. Although someone could probably watch your fingers at the checkout lane put in your pin. Camera script to correlate fingers to access pins automatedly. Machine vision is so much more advanced. Four finger movements, four numbers, tada, debit card access. I could probably write that with ML Kit. Correlated to your exact receipt, purchases, and time of purchase (with enough fidelity to say "you put your card in your pocket at ##:##"). Track your card through the system, and what bank/clearing house is passing the transaction. When did this exact number amount of money go through and where did the lines send the data? What account was the final transaction processed through?
- otteromkram 3y ago
  I usually put my wallet over the touchpad to block it. Maybe I'll mess up on the PIN, too, to throw people off (although that's probably caused by not being able to see the numbers). They could also use sound to detect the keypress, but I'm hoping any legit retailer hasn't gone that far, yet.
ethbr1 3y ago
YMMV, as not familiar with all retail, but typically CCTV footage review is limited to a select group of people. I'd guess your friend was forwarded to an asset protection person at the store or similar. Also, in this case, there's not much sensitive about "we saw you put it in your purse." It'd be a different story if your friend had asked "Did you see what 4-number code I entered on the PIN pad?"
RCitronsBroker 3y ago
this is absolutely impressive, but target is in no way representative of the avg. level of surveillance/LP tech in retail. they are notorious for being at the leading edge of technology and dedication. Their forensics actually did contract govt work at some point in time.

wcunning 3y ago

Meanwhile, someone backs into the taillight on my truck in the parking lot of the local Kroger, and they have zero surveillance footage showing it, despite giving them a date and a 40 minute window of shopping based on my receipt timestamp. sigh

doubled112 3y ago
You can't steal from them once you're out of the store. There's little business benefit to watch the parking lot.
- phone8675309 3y ago
  And a huge liability - you can't prove that an employee damaged your car if you don't have video of the parking lot
- droopyEyelids 3y ago
  This answer is too simple. For example, target has incredible surveillance of the parking lot so that they can correlate thieves with vehicles. I think the real answer is that Kroger simply does not take operations seriously. Theres evidence for this in their app, their self checkout experience, how often sales are not applied, the quality of their produce, how dirty the stores are, the way their merger and acquisition stores are all 1/3 integrated, and more im sure
Suppafly 3y ago
I had someone massively door ding me at Kroger like 15 years ago, and talked to their security and they had cameras but the angle didn't show enough of the door ding to definitely say the person parked next to me did it. I suppose it depends on your specific location, but it's not like they don't have surveillance at all.

neilv 3y ago

Target is known for having forensics labs (which they sometimes loan out to law enforcement) and sophisticated surveillance. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2006/01/29/retailer-target-branches-out-into-police-work-span-classbankheadminneapolis-forensics-lab-donations-help-law-enforcement-agenciesspan/32273b10-40fa-4db4-a4a1-88b77eafb891/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2006/01/29/r... https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/csi-walmart/521565/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/csi-w...

ethbr1 3y ago
Neat! TIL It's hard to keep competency from developing when you have (frequent, sophisticated attacker) + (financial motive to fund countermeasures and resourcing). (Albeit some retail still seems to find a way)

crtasm 3y ago

I assume the end to this story is: they were proven correct when she found her card?