4 ms·

The high cost of return to office mandates

41 points by softwaredoug 3y ago

randcraw 3y ago
I've been compelled to RTO, 3 days a week, at a major pharma for about a year now. There is absolutely NO value in doing this, for me. Social interaction is minimal since our teams are internationally distributed, and parking has become a major pain (since everyone comes in on the same days). Personal offices were replaced by open spaces before covid which reduce productivity anyway due to interruptions and high ambient noise. IMO, RTO is lose-lose.
- FroshKiller 3y ago
  My employer is mandating RTO now as well. I'm going for a medical accommodation, but they're even pushing back against that. They argue that office attendance is essential to my role--a role I got in 2021 after more than a year of full-time remote work and which I have never performed in an office. I've been with my company since 2009. This RTO business has shredded any feeling of goodwill and reframes my employer as my adversary. Talking to my co-workers, I can feel their loss of morale as well. It makes me wonder how many people we will lose and whether that might be the whole point.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    I recommend seeking the opinion of an ADA/disability attorney, might cost a few hundred bucks for an hour or two of their time and sending the letter to your HR department. Document you were hired remote, create a paper trail with the assistance of your attorney in the event you need to file a disability complaint with the DoJ: https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/ https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/
    - FroshKiller 3y ago
      I actually spoke to one Monday, and the takeaway is I can't do much except hope for the opportunity to file a wrongful termination claim with the EEOC. Let me clarify that in my case, I wasn't hired as a remote worker. I went into the office regularly with no remote work from 2009 to 2020, when COVID forced us into working remotely. Since 2020, I've worked remotely and got my current position. This year is the start of our RTO mandate.
  - deprecative 3y ago
    It is absolutely wild to me that people think of their employers as anything but an adversary. They're not our friends and they're not looking out for what's best for us, either.
- EchoChamberMan 3y ago
  If you happen to be up to your eyeballs in over-valued, over-leveraged Commercial Real Estate, then RTO is win (you) - lose (company) - lose (employee).
softwaredoug 3y ago
Though I posted this, I think the bottom line is many big tech companies are OK not retaining best employees. They now have stable products they need to incrementally improve. The “best employees” are seen as a hassle now. Instead they want to manage to consistent mediocrity over occasional brilliance. In other words they’ve given up all pretense of being different from other large companies out there.
- datadrivenangel 3y ago
  In 18 months we'll see articles about how these major companies are experiencing the second great resignation!
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    I think you're also going to see a lot of institutional knowledge bleed out via older workers who can bounce due to the capital market performance. https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/american-retirement-boom-high-stock-market-returns https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/american-retirement-boom-hi... https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4405350-telework-is-actually-rescuing-the-federal-workforce-its-abolition-wont-be-pretty/ https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4405350-telework-is-a...
- graemep 3y ago
  It is not only tech companies doing it though.
JohnClark1337 3y ago
Surprised the author didn't bring up the corporate mentality of having to justify having (sometimes) large office buildings, cafeterias, etc that make their campuses look impressive but are a massive cost sink if nobody is utilizing them. You can say "just get rid of the buildings" but then (thinking of tech companies) they won't APPEAR to be as big or popular as other tech companies.
- softjobs 3y ago
  "My building is bigger than your building."
devaiops9001 3y ago
Need to be very careful with RTO. Some employees have literally set buildings on fire in response to unnecessary RTO.
- magnetowasright 3y ago
  Got a link about these arsonists?
  - deprecative 3y ago
    You mean heroes?
    - magnetowasright 3y ago
      Well, yeah, but I didn't want to attract the attention of the rand lovers

41 points by softwaredoug 3y ago

I've been compelled to RTO, 3 days a week, at a major pharma for about a year now. There is absolutely NO value in doing this, for me. Social interaction is minimal since our teams are internationally distributed, and parking has become a major pain (since everyone comes in on the same days). Personal offices were replaced by open spaces before covid which reduce productivity anyway due to interruptions and high ambient noise. IMO, RTO is lose-lose.

FroshKiller 3y ago
My employer is mandating RTO now as well. I'm going for a medical accommodation, but they're even pushing back against that. They argue that office attendance is essential to my role--a role I got in 2021 after more than a year of full-time remote work and which I have never performed in an office. I've been with my company since 2009. This RTO business has shredded any feeling of goodwill and reframes my employer as my adversary. Talking to my co-workers, I can feel their loss of morale as well. It makes me wonder how many people we will lose and whether that might be the whole point.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  I recommend seeking the opinion of an ADA/disability attorney, might cost a few hundred bucks for an hour or two of their time and sending the letter to your HR department. Document you were hired remote, create a paper trail with the assistance of your attorney in the event you need to file a disability complaint with the DoJ: https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/ https://www.ada.gov/file-a-complaint/
  - FroshKiller 3y ago
    I actually spoke to one Monday, and the takeaway is I can't do much except hope for the opportunity to file a wrongful termination claim with the EEOC. Let me clarify that in my case, I wasn't hired as a remote worker. I went into the office regularly with no remote work from 2009 to 2020, when COVID forced us into working remotely. Since 2020, I've worked remotely and got my current position. This year is the start of our RTO mandate.
- deprecative 3y ago
  It is absolutely wild to me that people think of their employers as anything but an adversary. They're not our friends and they're not looking out for what's best for us, either.
EchoChamberMan 3y ago
If you happen to be up to your eyeballs in over-valued, over-leveraged Commercial Real Estate, then RTO is win (you) - lose (company) - lose (employee).

softwaredoug 3y ago

Though I posted this, I think the bottom line is many big tech companies are OK not retaining best employees. They now have stable products they need to incrementally improve. The “best employees” are seen as a hassle now. Instead they want to manage to consistent mediocrity over occasional brilliance. In other words they’ve given up all pretense of being different from other large companies out there.

datadrivenangel 3y ago
In 18 months we'll see articles about how these major companies are experiencing the second great resignation!
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  I think you're also going to see a lot of institutional knowledge bleed out via older workers who can bounce due to the capital market performance. https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/american-retirement-boom-high-stock-market-returns https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/american-retirement-boom-hi... https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4405350-telework-is-actually-rescuing-the-federal-workforce-its-abolition-wont-be-pretty/ https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4405350-telework-is-a...
graemep 3y ago
It is not only tech companies doing it though.

JohnClark1337 3y ago

Surprised the author didn't bring up the corporate mentality of having to justify having (sometimes) large office buildings, cafeterias, etc that make their campuses look impressive but are a massive cost sink if nobody is utilizing them. You can say "just get rid of the buildings" but then (thinking of tech companies) they won't APPEAR to be as big or popular as other tech companies.

softjobs 3y ago
"My building is bigger than your building."

devaiops9001 3y ago

Need to be very careful with RTO. Some employees have literally set buildings on fire in response to unnecessary RTO.

magnetowasright 3y ago
Got a link about these arsonists?
- deprecative 3y ago
  You mean heroes?
  - magnetowasright 3y ago
    Well, yeah, but I didn't want to attract the attention of the rand lovers