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> we've got this pent up energy that has no where to go. It's no wonder why a lot of kids are producing content for youtube or tiktok... but this has a lot of p

by eszed 3y ago

> we've got this pent up energy that has no where to go. It's no wonder why a lot of kids are producing content for youtube or tiktok... but this has a lot of problems as a replacement. No argument there, but it has advantages, too. TV is entirely passive, whilst creating for TikTok, or wherever, is well, creating. Not, perhaps, an ideal medium - and algorithmically controlled by sinister others - but the collaborative joy I see youngsters bring to their efforts to create the perfect [whatever] is lovely. I'm old enough to remember 'zines, and Geocities, and Flash games, and I wish they were still doing that, because that was great, right? But our elders didn't "get" our youth culture, either, and so I think it's probably OK that I don't totally get most of what they're up to now. They're excited by it, and they're doing it together, and it brings them joy, and (apart from my concern about the algorithmic gods) it's just fine.

micromacrofoot 3y ago
> it's just fine yes and no, the basics are pretty good... but as you mentioned there are some insidious effects from the centralized platforms themselves that weren't as broad reaching in earlier technologies; instagram promoting content that makes teens girls spiral into feeling terrible about themselves, youtube radicalizing incels, etc then there's the monetization aspect that's leading kids to say things like they want to aspire to become youtubers when they grow up
- eszed 3y ago
  Thanks for fleshing out my point a bit. I completely agree. Centralized platforms always drove culture, but when that was broadcast (emphasis on the first syllable), it was a) visible to, (potentially!) comprehensible, and able to be influenced by outside observers, and b) sub-cultures developed outside the opticon's view. Now the vast majority of social activity belongs to a few opaque platforms, with consequences we don't yet know, but already seem sinister. I'm honestly more worried about how that affects adults than kids! Young people, mainly because they go to school, have more (albeit enforced) opportunities for offline socialization. As a parent, I know I'll have at least some control over my kid's online activity for a while (and once he finds a way around my router rules he'll be a journeyman hacker, so that's cool too), but there's no brake on twenty-somethings (or thirty- or forty-somethings) being pulled down the dark paths you mention. As for kids aspiring to be YouTubers or whatever? Eh, they're just chasing the high-prestige choices within their cultural ambit. It's no different than wanting to be an athlete or rock star once was. They'll find (as we all did) that actually doing so takes a ton of hard work, and a bit of luck; some will dedicate themselves to it, and learn plenty (through either success or failure); most will drift towards different dreams.
justsomehnguy 3y ago
> 'zines, and Geocities, and Flash games, and I wish they were still doing that Honestly there is no difference between a crappy Flash animation and a crappy TikTok video, it's just the accessibility of the producing tools and hence accessibility of the end product is different. But at the bottom the idea is still the same - I have some spare time, I have some tools to convey an idea, no matter what it is.
- eszed 3y ago
  I could quibble by saying that making Flash games was a gateway into programming for many of us on this platform, and I don't see similarly useful skills being exercised by making TikTok videos. On the other hand, our elders by and large didn't see the value in computers, either, and thought we were wasting our time. So, that opinion might be me being an old man yelling at clouds! Or, more interestingly, our generation created (helped create; yeah, I know there are grey(er) beards than me on here) a world that highly values the skills we cut our teeth on messing around with Flash; the kids these days will have their turn making a world in their image, which may (read: will) have different values. I can't say what our generation's done with / to tech (or creativity in general) has been an un-alloyed good; what comes next will certainly be different, but different doesn't imply worse. The kids making TikToks right now won't think it is, and I expect that in some ways they'll be right.

by eszed 3y ago

micromacrofoot 3y ago

> it's just fine yes and no, the basics are pretty good... but as you mentioned there are some insidious effects from the centralized platforms themselves that weren't as broad reaching in earlier technologies; instagram promoting content that makes teens girls spiral into feeling terrible about themselves, youtube radicalizing incels, etc then there's the monetization aspect that's leading kids to say things like they want to aspire to become youtubers when they grow up

eszed 3y ago
Thanks for fleshing out my point a bit. I completely agree. Centralized platforms always drove culture, but when that was broadcast (emphasis on the first syllable), it was a) visible to, (potentially!) comprehensible, and able to be influenced by outside observers, and b) sub-cultures developed outside the opticon's view. Now the vast majority of social activity belongs to a few opaque platforms, with consequences we don't yet know, but already seem sinister. I'm honestly more worried about how that affects adults than kids! Young people, mainly because they go to school, have more (albeit enforced) opportunities for offline socialization. As a parent, I know I'll have at least some control over my kid's online activity for a while (and once he finds a way around my router rules he'll be a journeyman hacker, so that's cool too), but there's no brake on twenty-somethings (or thirty- or forty-somethings) being pulled down the dark paths you mention. As for kids aspiring to be YouTubers or whatever? Eh, they're just chasing the high-prestige choices within their cultural ambit. It's no different than wanting to be an athlete or rock star once was. They'll find (as we all did) that actually doing so takes a ton of hard work, and a bit of luck; some will dedicate themselves to it, and learn plenty (through either success or failure); most will drift towards different dreams.

justsomehnguy 3y ago

> 'zines, and Geocities, and Flash games, and I wish they were still doing that Honestly there is no difference between a crappy Flash animation and a crappy TikTok video, it's just the accessibility of the producing tools and hence accessibility of the end product is different. But at the bottom the idea is still the same - I have some spare time, I have some tools to convey an idea, no matter what it is.

eszed 3y ago
I could quibble by saying that making Flash games was a gateway into programming for many of us on this platform, and I don't see similarly useful skills being exercised by making TikTok videos. On the other hand, our elders by and large didn't see the value in computers, either, and thought we were wasting our time. So, that opinion might be me being an old man yelling at clouds! Or, more interestingly, our generation created (helped create; yeah, I know there are grey(er) beards than me on here) a world that highly values the skills we cut our teeth on messing around with Flash; the kids these days will have their turn making a world in their image, which may (read: will) have different values. I can't say what our generation's done with / to tech (or creativity in general) has been an un-alloyed good; what comes next will certainly be different, but different doesn't imply worse. The kids making TikToks right now won't think it is, and I expect that in some ways they'll be right.