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I'm not a medical expert or anything but I guess there is a good chunk of population who just procrastinates or can struggle with focus without having ADHD? Or
by darkwater 3y ago
I'm not a medical expert or anything but I guess there is a good chunk of population who just procrastinates or can struggle with focus without having ADHD? Or is there always a 1:1 relationship?
- pjc50 3y agoADHD, like a lot of things relating to the brain, is not a binary condition; it's just the diagnosis that's binary.
- dartos 3y agoIt’s likely that a lot more people have ADHD than we think, but I don’t think everyone who procrastinates does so bc of ADHD
- adadadadadad 3y agoIf you read the diagnostic criteria that is used, it’s so broad it could easily apply to most of the world’s population…as long as they declare they have trouble focusing.
- corobo 3y agoMany people probably do have the same brain wiring, or maybe it's a low level of background dopamine, or whatever it turns out to be once science figures it out. The reason most of the worlds population isn't diagnosed[0] is that second D: Disorder. No disorder, no problem, no diagnosis. [0] outside of lack of access to mental health resources, not knowing what they're looking for so never getting referred to a place to diagnose it, not believing in treating mental health issues, self-medicating, avoiding stigma, etc
- hirvi74 3y agoI liken it to forgetfulness in old age. A majority of elderly people see a decline in memory as they age. Not every elderly person who is forgetful necessarily has dementia.
- dartos 3y agoYeah it’s hard to write specific criteria for some mental disorders. They’re not all uniform in presentation or affect. It’d really be up to the therapist. Thankfully, it doesn’t seem like most of the ADHD meds usually have long lasting adverse effects.
- adadadadadad 3y agoThe brain does adapt to adhd meds and there are studies showing this. The thing I don’t like about adhd is that the premise is the brain doesn’t produce enough dopamine so we return it to normal levels…but the brain always seeks homeostasis so it will adapt by producing more dopamine reuptake cells. There are no conclusive imaging studies or genetic markers for it. The meds certainly do work but if you ask someone to explain their condition to you they have all have the same simplified and erroneous explanation as to why they can handle addictive meds and the general population cannot. I think it’s pretty much a general smart drug but with high risk of addiction.
- projektfu 3y agoI disagree. I think that 6 months or more of 5/9 symptoms of inattentiveness or 5/9 symptoms of hyperactivity, persistently, does not represent most of the world. (And excluding: "The symptoms are not solely a manifestation of oppositional behavior, defiance, hostility, or failure to understand tasks or instructions." 6/9 symptoms are required to diagnose children) [0] Indeed, surveys show that it's probably under 10% [1]. Mind you, these are surveys of symptoms, not surveys of diagnoses. 0. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/ 1. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/208678 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...
- adadadadadad 3y agoIf you look into how the criteria is chosen its very arbitrary. And this descriptive diagnosis where you pick from list A and B is extremely bizarre from a common sense standpoint. And there is no brain imaging or genetic markers available. > The number of criteria required for a diagnosis of ADHD has been set arbitrarily in DSM-5. No scientific justification has been presented nor method used for deciding how many criteria should be required > https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.814763/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476... and... > For the case of ADHD specifically, this is translated to: “if an individual has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder it is because he is inattentive, disorganized and hyperactive-impulsive, and if an individual is inattentive, disorganized and hyperactive-impulsive it is because he has ADHD. > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9871920/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9871920/ It's important to be aware that each percentage point is hundreds of millions of dollars.
- _yb2s 3y agoThe set of symptoms are not arbitrary, but are connected logically, by each being the result of a deficit in some type of executive function. ADHD is broadly a disability of executive function. Executive function is historically entirely a psychological concept, although there is starting to be some biological understanding which came later (e.g. which brain regions are involved, etc.).
- cloverich 3y agoThis is true about most diagnostic criteria, which is why medical students think they have all the illnesses before they get experience with people who actually have them. Its just very difficult to use words with sufficient precision to capture the bits that are, somehow, more obvious once experienced.
- snazz 3y agoA lot of people (myself included) procrastinate on something because it's emotionally uncomfortable, without necessarily having ADHD. For example, when I was much younger, I'd procrastinate on math homework specifically, not because I struggled with focus, but because it was difficult to admit to myself that I didn't know how to do it and would need to practice. Subjects that came more naturally to me (English, science) didn't give me a "fear of failure" response in the same way.
- darkwater 3y agoYep, that's my experience as well. Or because it's just something I don't like to do that much or that doesn't give me some good hormone to my brain in exchange after doing it.
- WhitneyLand 3y agoMakes perfect sense. Kind of interesting the opposite can bite too: Math came naturally to me, but after seeing some high standardized test scores adults paraded them around and made a big deal of it, so it became stressful to do without perfect outcomes. For my own kids I just refused to allow a lot of that stuff like IQ testing, etc.
- helboi4 3y agoHow do you overcome this? I've avoided things due to emotional discomfort my whole life and I don't think I can ever do better at this point. I find that it requires conscious effort to learn to do things that are required as standard for most adults.
- snazz 3y agoWith math specifically I had a good teacher in high school who made us practice in class together. He'd get everyone to sit around a table and he'd give handheld whiteboards to every fourth or fifth person (depending on the number of basic steps in the problem), and then the person with the whiteboard would do the first step and pass it to the person on their right. That experience stuck with me because just forcing me to get started (with help available) was enough to quickly clear up anything I was avoiding getting started on at home. I still avoid doing things because they're emotionally uncomfortable occasionally, so I haven't really found a general solution. But it's gotten better over time and it's less of an issue when I'm more invested in something.
- LoganDark 3y agoADHD is a spectrum, so it can have different severities. Some people simply find it more difficult to function well whereas some people find it absolutely and utterly impossible.
- hirvi74 3y ago> ADHD is a spectrum When analyzing people what is not a spectrum? Every human attribute can be placed on a spectrum. Even other diseases, disorders, etc.. A broken bone can be a hairline crack or shattered into pieces.
- _yb2s 3y agoWhat spectrum means in this context is that it's a multi-dimensional problem- different levels of severity across a large number of different dimensions. Executive function is typically broken up into a large number of different functions, and people have different levels of each, so a person that functions well in one context might do poorly in another, and vice versa.
- LoganDark 3y ago> What spectrum means in this context is that it's a multi-dimensional problem I used "spectrum" to mean that ADHD is not always severe enough to cause outright disability, but the underlying problems can still be present to a lower degree. The parent mentioned "procrastinates or can struggle with focus without having ADHD" (emphasis mine) and I wanted to point out that some of those people may also have some very mild form of ADHD.
- WhitneyLand 3y agoExtreme forms of procrastination do not mean that someone has ADHD by definition. It can be rooted in anxiety, stress, depression, other mental health conditions. It can be lack of motivation, or simply the habits and behaviors one has developed over time. I’d really like to know in addition to personal anecdotes of successfully overcoming it, what on average turns out to be most effective?
- prometheus76 3y agoI was diagnosed with anxiety and ADHD about 8 years ago, and since then, I have mainly worked on my anxiety. My anxiety has diminished drastically, and I have found that my ADHD symptoms are now manageable without medication (although I still struggle some days). For me, ADHD led to failing in my daily duties as a kid, which led to higher and higher levels of anxiety, which really exacerbated my ADHD symptoms. Now that I have learned how to control my anxiety, and with the resulting calming of my nervous system, the ADHD isn't nearly as problematic. TL;DR: anxiety and ADHD are often intertwined and they spiral each other out of control, so what looks like ADHD is sometimes much worse because of anxiety.
- annie_muss 3y agoThe real measure is the level of harm. That's it. My ADHD meant I couldn't hold down a job or relationship. You lose your job enough times and the depression that follows is inevitable. That said, I can imagine a Dustin where I had stumbled into a different career, a different family situation. Then my ADHD might not have caused enough problems to be a disorder.
- adadadadadad 3y agoI sometimes wonder if it’s just a sign of being in the wrong career. A lot of people chase the money in an area of general interest. But the actual tasks they are being paid for might simply not be what they are suited for. If always think to myself if only brainstorming, ideation and online shopping were a career haha.
- Modified3019 3y agoADHD is definitely a major cause, but another big one which is much more complex to talk about is “avoidant” type behaviors that are a result of trauma/neglect/abuse early in life. There is correlation that occurs among diagnoses of ADHD, Autism, CPTSD, and other “mental issues”, such that by the time one becomes noticeable as having pathological effect, then it’s likely to be able to identify at least a few more issues acting in a comorbid manner.
- adadadadadad 3y agoAvoidant behaviors can also just be a result of getting older. Everyday is the youngest you will ever be and gradually doors close off to you which can induce panic and anxiety. Starting a task towards a longer term goal brings to the forefront of how little time you have left.
- hirvi74 3y agoIt's a square vs. rectangle kind of thing.
- slowmovintarget 3y agoDeep breath in... Many people who suffer from ADHD actually have undiagnosed allergies. My father was told he had ADHD late in life... he had allergies. I had problems with focus and being scatterbrained... on days the tree pollen was up. Kiddo was starting to get easily distracted and unable to focus on schoolwork... It was an allergy to the hard wheat used in U.S. bread making and preservatives. You [edit: most people] don't just "have ADHD." That's like diagnosing someone with a headache disorder. There's an underlying cause that requires more work to dig out.
- Jommi 3y agoNo that's not true. ADHD is a real thing that exists. You shominimize that. Now are there other disorders/illnesses/allergies that affect concentration definition. A lot of people have deviated septum or allergies that make nasal bresthing incredibly hard without effort. Of course this has a major effect on concentration. Other examples surely exist. But please don't minimize real debilitating ADHD.
- slowmovintarget 3y agoI'm not talking about difficulty breathing. I'm talking about a systemic inflammatory response from allergies that includes neurological symptoms like an inability to focus, problems with reading comprehension, and uncontrolled daydreaming or "tuning out." Every time I got my allergy shots, my concentration was shot for the day, and it had zero to do with my nasal passages. I'm not minimizing the problems of those who suffer from ADHD. I'm hoping that they work with their doctors to see if there's more going on.
- _yb2s 3y agoI don't think they are in any way minimizing ADHD. ADHD is diagnosed by symptoms, and has a large number of different possible underlying causes, most of which are not well understood. When ADHD is caused or worsened by an allergy, that in no way makes it not real ADHD, but can make it easier to treat, if the allergy is identified! It's known that ADHD is highly heritable and has some specific genetic mutations weakly associated with it, but it can also be caused by traumatic brain injury, toxin exposure, some food dyes and preservatives, and allergies. It's very likely that many of the heritable genetic factors themselves have interactions with external environmental factors, and can therefore be treated with environmental manipulation, if we can understand it better.
- brnt 3y agoPeople love to label things, and parents overlabelling ADHD has been a common warning among anyone working with kids now. In broader context I think we are now finally starting to pay attention to the fact every single human is subtly or not so subtly different, and we haven't even scratched the surface of mapping all those particularities and so we put people into categories we know, not necessarily where the actually belong. It's great were slowly letting go of 'normalising' ourselves, but we're going to have to learn entirely news vocabularies to says describe who we then are. Also, by thinking about yourself you define yourself, so if you think differently you define differently. I.e. we are fluid, to a certain extent.