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Does Thor ever actually code games? The few times I've seen his stream, he's basically editing config files or doing some drag-and-drop game engine thing. Being

by snet0 3y ago

Does Thor ever actually code games? The few times I've seen his stream, he's basically editing config files or doing some drag-and-drop game engine thing. Being entirely unfair based on the low amount of exposure I've had to him, I've basically marked him as an edutainment streamer, where if you really want to learn game development your time is better spent consuming actual educational resources. I could be wrong, though!

krapp 3y ago
He worked at Blizzard for six years then started his own indie game company. His father was the cinematic director at Blizzard. He's shipped a game (Heartbound) which is on Steam now. He may not do coding streams as far as I'm aware (I mostly know him from YT shorts), but there are tons of resources out there if you want that. I'd still take Thor's advice about what actually works for shipping games and how the industry actually operates over a guy who's been farting around with a debug room for a decade, and whose primary personality trait is spite for modernity.
- snet0 3y ago
  To be clear, his work at Blizzard had, as far as I'm aware, nothing to do with game development. His father being a cinematic director also has nothing to do with Thor's game development experience. He shipped one game on Steam, and it's a pretty basic game built using GameMaker. I'm sure it's fun and tells a good story, but it's hardly innovative or complex. I don't think you're characterising Muratori/Blow fairly. Muratori's work on Handmade Hero isn't really about making a game as much as it's about showing the process of making a game, from scratch. It goes through all the tiny-but-important problems that an independent game dev might encounter. The problem I see with Thor's work and this kind of game dev is that it's really unlikely to lead anywhere interesting. Games like Braid or The Witness couldn't be built by just drag-dropping things together in GameMaker, as is the case for most compelling games! If you want to flood the market with little stories told in 2D RPGs or basic Unity showcases, that's fine. But it just strikes me as an uninspired approach to game dev. At least, if you follow Muratori's approach, you can basically build anything that a computer is able to do. I also think it's entirely unfair to characterise a disappointment in modern software and videogames as "spite for modernity". Sure, they both go over the top and make petty complaints every now and then, just like everyone else. But I think it's pretty clear to anyone who's paying attention that software is simply worse than it was previously, and calling that "spite for modernity" isn't going to help anything.
  - ido 3y ago
    You absolutely can make braid in GakeMaker - I think you’re severely underestimating it.
  - krapp 3y ago
    >I don't think you're characterising Muratori/Blow fairly. Muratori's work on Handmade Hero isn't really about making a game as much as it's about showing the process of making a game, from scratch. Maybe it was, years ago. Now, it seems like all he does is refactor game code, for a "game" that has yet to even be designed. This is not how anyone actually interested in making a game, even from scratch, would do so. His last HH post on YT was a year ago. Even the HH subreddit is kind of over his shit. >Games like Braid or The Witness couldn't be built by just drag-dropping things together in GameMaker, as is the case for most compelling games! I mean, Undertale, one of the most compelling indie games ever made, was written in GameMaker, but ok. You know you can actually write code for games in those frameworks, though, right? No one is "just drag-dropping things together" in any framework. >At least, if you follow Muratori's approach, you can basically build anything that a computer is able to do. Nothing he has done has been that groundbreaking. He's basically writing a 2D Zelda clone. Show me where the inspiration is. You can literally surpass Handmade Hero in a day with a tutorial in just about any modern framework. >Sure, they both go over the top and make petty complaints every now and then, just like everyone else. But I think it's pretty clear to anyone who's paying attention that software is simply worse than it was previously, and calling that "spite for modernity" isn't going to help anything. He starts with the premise that C++ is a garbage language created by morons and that anyone who uses object oriented programming has their mind permanently corrupted, and then goes downhill from there. His misanthropic attitude isn't going to help anyone write good software, it's just going to lead to programmers who overoptimize on petty shit and never ship anything. He is the epitome of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
GaelFG 3y ago
Never watched him but honestly, that would be pretty standard mature workflow. In most video games productions, efficient coding is basically conceptualizing a dsl from the game design, writing it's interpeter while gluing the needed library and make some tools to manipulate or better make converter from existing robust tools. 99% of 'actual game design related' content are assets and data.

by snet0 3y ago

krapp 3y ago

He worked at Blizzard for six years then started his own indie game company. His father was the cinematic director at Blizzard. He's shipped a game (Heartbound) which is on Steam now. He may not do coding streams as far as I'm aware (I mostly know him from YT shorts), but there are tons of resources out there if you want that. I'd still take Thor's advice about what actually works for shipping games and how the industry actually operates over a guy who's been farting around with a debug room for a decade, and whose primary personality trait is spite for modernity.

snet0 3y ago
To be clear, his work at Blizzard had, as far as I'm aware, nothing to do with game development. His father being a cinematic director also has nothing to do with Thor's game development experience. He shipped one game on Steam, and it's a pretty basic game built using GameMaker. I'm sure it's fun and tells a good story, but it's hardly innovative or complex. I don't think you're characterising Muratori/Blow fairly. Muratori's work on Handmade Hero isn't really about making a game as much as it's about showing the process of making a game, from scratch. It goes through all the tiny-but-important problems that an independent game dev might encounter. The problem I see with Thor's work and this kind of game dev is that it's really unlikely to lead anywhere interesting. Games like Braid or The Witness couldn't be built by just drag-dropping things together in GameMaker, as is the case for most compelling games! If you want to flood the market with little stories told in 2D RPGs or basic Unity showcases, that's fine. But it just strikes me as an uninspired approach to game dev. At least, if you follow Muratori's approach, you can basically build anything that a computer is able to do. I also think it's entirely unfair to characterise a disappointment in modern software and videogames as "spite for modernity". Sure, they both go over the top and make petty complaints every now and then, just like everyone else. But I think it's pretty clear to anyone who's paying attention that software is simply worse than it was previously, and calling that "spite for modernity" isn't going to help anything.
- ido 3y ago
  You absolutely can make braid in GakeMaker - I think you’re severely underestimating it.
- krapp 3y ago
  >I don't think you're characterising Muratori/Blow fairly. Muratori's work on Handmade Hero isn't really about making a game as much as it's about showing the process of making a game, from scratch. Maybe it was, years ago. Now, it seems like all he does is refactor game code, for a "game" that has yet to even be designed. This is not how anyone actually interested in making a game, even from scratch, would do so. His last HH post on YT was a year ago. Even the HH subreddit is kind of over his shit. >Games like Braid or The Witness couldn't be built by just drag-dropping things together in GameMaker, as is the case for most compelling games! I mean, Undertale, one of the most compelling indie games ever made, was written in GameMaker, but ok. You know you can actually write code for games in those frameworks, though, right? No one is "just drag-dropping things together" in any framework. >At least, if you follow Muratori's approach, you can basically build anything that a computer is able to do. Nothing he has done has been that groundbreaking. He's basically writing a 2D Zelda clone. Show me where the inspiration is. You can literally surpass Handmade Hero in a day with a tutorial in just about any modern framework. >Sure, they both go over the top and make petty complaints every now and then, just like everyone else. But I think it's pretty clear to anyone who's paying attention that software is simply worse than it was previously, and calling that "spite for modernity" isn't going to help anything. He starts with the premise that C++ is a garbage language created by morons and that anyone who uses object oriented programming has their mind permanently corrupted, and then goes downhill from there. His misanthropic attitude isn't going to help anyone write good software, it's just going to lead to programmers who overoptimize on petty shit and never ship anything. He is the epitome of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

GaelFG 3y ago

Never watched him but honestly, that would be pretty standard mature workflow. In most video games productions, efficient coding is basically conceptualizing a dsl from the game design, writing it's interpeter while gluing the needed library and make some tools to manipulate or better make converter from existing robust tools. 99% of 'actual game design related' content are assets and data.