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Nitpick, but "List X" means somewhere that holds classified material, not somewhere that doesn't appear on maps. In fact for many List X sites it would surely b

Nitpick, but "List X" means somewhere that holds classified material, not somewhere that doesn't appear on maps. In fact for many List X sites it would surely be a dead giveaway if there was a gap on maps where it ought to be! According to Wikipedia and other sources [1], the BT tower was on maps (at least OS maps) anyway. [1] https://londonist.com/london/history/a-brief-history-of-the-bt-tower https://londonist.com/london/history/a-brief-history-of-the-...

defrost 3y ago
> In fact for many List X sites it would surely be a dead giveaway if there was a gap on maps where it ought to be! Yep. and for many years Soviet agents could easily find classified sites simply by looking for gaps on OS maps ( true story ) https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2185107/a-very-british-map-the-ordnance-survey-story-bbc4 https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2185107/a-very-brit... https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06b36q3 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06b36q3 ( I worked in mapping for decades and have some early OS maps with defence sites left blank )
- flir 3y ago
  I know an area that was just white space for most of the 19th, so it wasn't just to fool the Soviets, it was to fool the French too. Didn't get properly fixed until the 1933 map. A big strip of empty paper surrounded by carefully shaded fields definitely stands out. It makes me wonder if the mapmakers could just about handle leaving data out, but couldn't countenance putting fake data in. Interestingly, the earliest OS 6" map has that area shaded as marsh, so at some point someone made a choice to leave it blank instead. There's a fort nearby that's back by 1911, and disappears again for 1938. Guess it wasn't as obsolete as they thought it was.
  - notahacker 3y ago
    Just for fun: the most boring grid square on current OS maps https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/81429 https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/81429 Definitely a black ops site, and don't let the photo convince you otherwise. More seriously, as soon as satellite imagery or even to a lesser extent aerial photography or agents driving around with cameras were a thing, putting the secure site in with a really boring symbol like a landfill site or description like Ind Est would have been a much better disguise.
- dboreham 3y ago
  E.g. Menwith Hill
- implements 3y ago
  Yeah - I have an OS map that shows Longcross railway station apparently serving … empty countryside, but actually a large army R&D establishment (closed, now a film studio).

defrost 3y ago

> In fact for many List X sites it would surely be a dead giveaway if there was a gap on maps where it ought to be! Yep. and for many years Soviet agents could easily find classified sites simply by looking for gaps on OS maps ( true story ) https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2185107/a-very-british-map-the-ordnance-survey-story-bbc4 https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2185107/a-very-brit... https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06b36q3 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06b36q3 ( I worked in mapping for decades and have some early OS maps with defence sites left blank )

flir 3y ago
I know an area that was just white space for most of the 19th, so it wasn't just to fool the Soviets, it was to fool the French too. Didn't get properly fixed until the 1933 map. A big strip of empty paper surrounded by carefully shaded fields definitely stands out. It makes me wonder if the mapmakers could just about handle leaving data out, but couldn't countenance putting fake data in. Interestingly, the earliest OS 6" map has that area shaded as marsh, so at some point someone made a choice to leave it blank instead. There's a fort nearby that's back by 1911, and disappears again for 1938. Guess it wasn't as obsolete as they thought it was.
- notahacker 3y ago
  Just for fun: the most boring grid square on current OS maps https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/81429 https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/81429 Definitely a black ops site, and don't let the photo convince you otherwise. More seriously, as soon as satellite imagery or even to a lesser extent aerial photography or agents driving around with cameras were a thing, putting the secure site in with a really boring symbol like a landfill site or description like Ind Est would have been a much better disguise.
dboreham 3y ago
E.g. Menwith Hill
implements 3y ago
Yeah - I have an OS map that shows Longcross railway station apparently serving … empty countryside, but actually a large army R&D establishment (closed, now a film studio).