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Articles (and the ensuing comments) always miss something major: construction and software are not even remotely the same thing. For example, in construction y

Articles (and the ensuing comments) always miss something major: construction and software are not even remotely the same thing. For example, in construction you have: * Architect (designs the building) * Designer (prepares the technical drawings) * Engineer (signs off the drawings) * Manufacturing (makes building parts to the drawings) * Surveyors (make sure the land can be built on) * Builders (build the building) * Roofers (put the roof on) * Site managers (make sure the builders build the building) * Building Control (government sign-off on the built building) * Sparkies (put wires in) * Plumbers (put the pipes in) * Plasterers (put the plaster on the walls) * Painters/decorators (finish the walls) * Fitters (put everything else in) All of these are separate businesses and I'm sure I've missed some things, or misnamed others. And, despite a number of people being legally liable for shoddy work, we still see things like Grenfell happen. Software engineering, by contrast: * Product manager (figures out what to make) * Designer (figures out how it should work/look) * Software engineer (writes the code) * Auditor (compliance with relevant standards e.g. PCI DSS or SOC2) There's also a bunch of stuff supporting that but I left them out because I'd add 5x more on the construction side. My point isn't to say who has it harder, or which field is "better," just to point out that the fields aren't comparable at all.

ourmandave 3y ago
This, honestly. I just read a quote (that I can't find) along the lines of, "no one asks a builder to remove the second floor and install a pool in the basement."
- TremendousJudge 3y ago
  You'd be surprised.
rrgok 3y ago
Finally someone who sees for what a shit of a job Software Engineer has become. You can see my post/comment history here on HN, that I argue exactly this. We are doing too much.
- scott_w 3y ago
  That's not what I said at all. See my last sentence: > My point isn't to say who has it harder, or which field is "better," just to point out that the fields aren't comparable at all.
  - rrgok 3y ago
    I'm not saying which is harder or who has it better either. I just pointed out that Software Engineers are doing a lot of things outside of their scope. Perfect example is the one you brought up.
    - scott_w 3y ago
      Which example?
Izkata 3y ago
> Sparkies (put wires in) Is this industry jargon, a translation, something else I'm not aware of? I'd think this was "electricians".
- scott_w 3y ago
  Yeah, its “electrician,” I suspect it’s a British localism because I learned it from my dad (who was a sparkie before he retired).
Viliam1234 3y ago
> Software engineering, by contrast: I thought it was: * Managers (they manage) * More managers (they also manage) * Even more managers (probably also manage, not sure though) * One full-stack developer assigned 20% to this project (has meetings with managers, writes the specification, writes the code, tests the application, deploys the application, provides 24/7 on-call support)

ourmandave 3y ago

This, honestly. I just read a quote (that I can't find) along the lines of, "no one asks a builder to remove the second floor and install a pool in the basement."

TremendousJudge 3y ago
You'd be surprised.

rrgok 3y ago

Finally someone who sees for what a shit of a job Software Engineer has become. You can see my post/comment history here on HN, that I argue exactly this. We are doing too much.

scott_w 3y ago
That's not what I said at all. See my last sentence: > My point isn't to say who has it harder, or which field is "better," just to point out that the fields aren't comparable at all.
- rrgok 3y ago
  I'm not saying which is harder or who has it better either. I just pointed out that Software Engineers are doing a lot of things outside of their scope. Perfect example is the one you brought up.
  - scott_w 3y ago
    Which example?

Izkata 3y ago

> Sparkies (put wires in) Is this industry jargon, a translation, something else I'm not aware of? I'd think this was "electricians".

scott_w 3y ago
Yeah, its “electrician,” I suspect it’s a British localism because I learned it from my dad (who was a sparkie before he retired).

Viliam1234 3y ago

> Software engineering, by contrast: I thought it was: * Managers (they manage) * More managers (they also manage) * Even more managers (probably also manage, not sure though) * One full-stack developer assigned 20% to this project (has meetings with managers, writes the specification, writes the code, tests the application, deploys the application, provides 24/7 on-call support)