3 ms·

Not really. Most of developers jobs are “here is Jira ticket build what is written there”. You get product owners, business analysts, scrum masters that shoul

by ozim 3y ago

Not really. Most of developers jobs are “here is Jira ticket build what is written there”. You get product owners, business analysts, scrum masters that should take away 90% of BS. But still it is not the case and a lot of those business roles seem like they are just useless and I would do much better job directly talking to the customer.

rurban 3y ago
You are a bit naive here. Those type customers are extremely common, and there are specialized jobs to deal with such customers. In SW they are the PM's. Without a good PM to shield you from the customers insanities you are lost. In architecture or other engineering professions it's the same. As architect you have a special man to deal with politicians and special clients, and in many other professions even with the press, who has no idea either. Never talk directly to the customer. Or if so, you are not allowed to make promises.
- runtu 3y ago
  You shouldn't be talking to the customer to hear what monstrosity of an application they think they want months from now, or even what "features" they think they want added. You should talk to the customer to understand the problems they have, and work with them to figure out the smallest thing that might help them solve their biggest problem. Build and deliver that small thing fast, then iterate.
  - whstl 3y ago
    25 years ago I thought Office Space would be enough to kill the meme of "technical people can't talk to customers". It's amusing but sad to see that Agile rent-seekers have managed to creep into the process once again. And developers have bought it.
- ozim 3y ago
  Not naive - it is only disappointing level of insanity that still gets through and some business people like PMs or BAs are there to shield devs yes - but there are also vast amounts that don't do their job properly and all turns into basically game of "Chinese whispers" or "human telephone". I don't need someone to copy over what customer wrote from e-mail to Jira that is not what the job is about.
- whstl 3y ago
  > Without a good PM to shield you from the customers insanities you are lost Nice but now there isn't anyone to shield us from the insanity and micromanagement of PMs. Especially the ones who "dabble in programming every weekend".
- stormfather 3y ago
  Sure, but its impossible to be a good PM without coming from a programming background. Otherwise you won't know the difference between the easy, hard and impossible. My current company has been run into the ground because we had a salesperson in charge of product map making wild promises to customers. What they wound up settling on was a PDF report that costs us $5-$20 to make and we sell for $1!!! Utter insanity. We'll be pivoting out of necessity but we could have saved 6 months by putting someone technically competent in the role.

by ozim 3y ago

rurban 3y ago

You are a bit naive here. Those type customers are extremely common, and there are specialized jobs to deal with such customers. In SW they are the PM's. Without a good PM to shield you from the customers insanities you are lost. In architecture or other engineering professions it's the same. As architect you have a special man to deal with politicians and special clients, and in many other professions even with the press, who has no idea either. Never talk directly to the customer. Or if so, you are not allowed to make promises.

runtu 3y ago
You shouldn't be talking to the customer to hear what monstrosity of an application they think they want months from now, or even what "features" they think they want added. You should talk to the customer to understand the problems they have, and work with them to figure out the smallest thing that might help them solve their biggest problem. Build and deliver that small thing fast, then iterate.
- whstl 3y ago
  25 years ago I thought Office Space would be enough to kill the meme of "technical people can't talk to customers". It's amusing but sad to see that Agile rent-seekers have managed to creep into the process once again. And developers have bought it.
ozim 3y ago
Not naive - it is only disappointing level of insanity that still gets through and some business people like PMs or BAs are there to shield devs yes - but there are also vast amounts that don't do their job properly and all turns into basically game of "Chinese whispers" or "human telephone". I don't need someone to copy over what customer wrote from e-mail to Jira that is not what the job is about.
whstl 3y ago
> Without a good PM to shield you from the customers insanities you are lost Nice but now there isn't anyone to shield us from the insanity and micromanagement of PMs. Especially the ones who "dabble in programming every weekend".
stormfather 3y ago
Sure, but its impossible to be a good PM without coming from a programming background. Otherwise you won't know the difference between the easy, hard and impossible. My current company has been run into the ground because we had a salesperson in charge of product map making wild promises to customers. What they wound up settling on was a PDF report that costs us $5-$20 to make and we sell for $1!!! Utter insanity. We'll be pivoting out of necessity but we could have saved 6 months by putting someone technically competent in the role.