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IANAL, but I wish they had put this bullet closer to the top, although I agree the logical flow does have it more appropriately at the bottom. > Adults in any

IANAL, but I wish they had put this bullet closer to the top, although I agree the logical flow does have it more appropriately at the bottom. > Adults in any of these groups who are unwilling to share their identities will find themselves shunted onto a second-class internet alongside the young people who have been denied access to this information. This is what I wish people would understand. It doesn't just protect kids from dangerous information. It flips the assumption of age on it's head. You're no longer assumed to be an adult on the internet, you're assumed to be a child. If you want to be treated as an adult, you have to "show" your ID, and this is not a cashier selling beer at the gas station. This will include the least trustworthy data-hoarding internet marketers who don't give a damn about your privacy. They will view your ID verification as data that can be used for marketing campaigns and sold to other people. They will probably be glad if this law passes because of the cover it gives them to invade your privacy even more.

freedomben 3y ago
Thinking about this in terms of HN, how does a site like this even exist in this world? How could anyone without the resources to hire a team of ID checkers possibly run a forum? Pretty much everything I enjoy about the internet would be gone.
- iteria 3y ago
  They'll use an ID service. It'll be like google auth. We'll all be worse off for it
- ndriscoll 3y ago
  Skimming the bill, nonprofits are not covered platforms, so while HN specifically probably wouldn't be excluded, most similar forums probably would. That said, HN doesn't have features meant to be addictive like infinite scroll, rewards for time spent on the platform, or even notifications, and doesn't have individual specific advertisements, or ads for drugs, gambling, etc. So it likely wouldn't have an issue anyway. Also: > Nothing in this title, including a determination described in subsection (b), shall be construed to require— > (1) the affirmative collection of any personal data with respect to the age of users that a covered platform is not already collecting in the normal course of business; or > (2) a covered platform to implement an age gating or age verification functionality So it literally says nothing in the title should be construed as suggesting sites need to check ID.
t0bia_s 3y ago
I don't see a logic here. You cannot pay for internet from ISP or get SIM card with data as child, right?
- freedomben 3y ago
  Sure but that assumes that everybody has to pay for their own internet connection, which is not true. If it were, there wouldn't be any children on the internet at all, yet we know that isn't the case. There is no shortage of places to get online these days without having to directly pay an ISP. If you run a website and you're liable if a child accesses content that the gov says children shouldn't be able to access, do you post it anyway? or do you assume everybody is a child unless they show you some ID? Or asked a different way, suppose you run a gas station and you sell beer. The law will punish you tremendously if you sell alcohol to a minor. Do you assume everybody is old enough to buy beer since they were able to gain access to a vehicle (which you must be an adult to legally own) and sell to whoever, or do you ask to see people's ID?
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    If an adult was found to be giving access to pornographic magazines and tapes to their child, and especially someone else's child, and even placing them on the child's desk in their bedroom, I think the police or CPS would want to get involved. While I understand a computer is just as tool, it does seem weird that we just gloss over the fact that websites just hand porn to children and don't worry about it, but if you did it on the street you would get run out of town at best and arrested at worst.

freedomben 3y ago

Thinking about this in terms of HN, how does a site like this even exist in this world? How could anyone without the resources to hire a team of ID checkers possibly run a forum? Pretty much everything I enjoy about the internet would be gone.

iteria 3y ago
They'll use an ID service. It'll be like google auth. We'll all be worse off for it
ndriscoll 3y ago
Skimming the bill, nonprofits are not covered platforms, so while HN specifically probably wouldn't be excluded, most similar forums probably would. That said, HN doesn't have features meant to be addictive like infinite scroll, rewards for time spent on the platform, or even notifications, and doesn't have individual specific advertisements, or ads for drugs, gambling, etc. So it likely wouldn't have an issue anyway. Also: > Nothing in this title, including a determination described in subsection (b), shall be construed to require— > (1) the affirmative collection of any personal data with respect to the age of users that a covered platform is not already collecting in the normal course of business; or > (2) a covered platform to implement an age gating or age verification functionality So it literally says nothing in the title should be construed as suggesting sites need to check ID.

t0bia_s 3y ago

I don't see a logic here. You cannot pay for internet from ISP or get SIM card with data as child, right?

freedomben 3y ago
Sure but that assumes that everybody has to pay for their own internet connection, which is not true. If it were, there wouldn't be any children on the internet at all, yet we know that isn't the case. There is no shortage of places to get online these days without having to directly pay an ISP. If you run a website and you're liable if a child accesses content that the gov says children shouldn't be able to access, do you post it anyway? or do you assume everybody is a child unless they show you some ID? Or asked a different way, suppose you run a gas station and you sell beer. The law will punish you tremendously if you sell alcohol to a minor. Do you assume everybody is old enough to buy beer since they were able to gain access to a vehicle (which you must be an adult to legally own) and sell to whoever, or do you ask to see people's ID?
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  If an adult was found to be giving access to pornographic magazines and tapes to their child, and especially someone else's child, and even placing them on the child's desk in their bedroom, I think the police or CPS would want to get involved. While I understand a computer is just as tool, it does seem weird that we just gloss over the fact that websites just hand porn to children and don't worry about it, but if you did it on the street you would get run out of town at best and arrested at worst.