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Then how is suppressing activism, which in its peaceful form is the most threatened expression of the contents of the Bill of rights, as the Mar professors clai

Then how is suppressing activism, which in its peaceful form is the most threatened expression of the contents of the Bill of rights, as the Mar professors claim to want to do, not “anti-American”. I’m sympathetic to the idea that the university as an institution should maintain neutrality. However, at the same time, individual professors, students, and even administrators should be protected by the university when engaging in speech.

WalterBright 3y ago
There's nothing un-American about activism. People are free to hold and express whatever beliefs they want. But when they want to force their beliefs on others, by: 1. shouting down anyone with a different view 2. requiring "loyalty oaths" from the staff 3. harassing others who disagree with them 4. trying to block roads and otherwise impede people from going about their business that is anti-American.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  What makes those anti-American? What does it have to do with the US in particular? And who are you to tell other Americans what's American or not? That assertion is what is fundamentally un-American. It's everyone else's country as much as yours. > 4. trying to block roads and otherwise impede people from going about their business That is the fundamental nature of protest, stopping people from going about their business. The whole point is that the issue is being ignored. Suddenly, all protest is suspect in our great democracy.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > What makes those anti-American? They infringe on our rights. Do you really believe there is a right to harass others? > What does it have to do with the US in particular? It's the US that has a Constitution, a Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, etc. Of course, any other nation is free to adopt them as well, and become American. > And who are you to tell other Americans what's American or not? I'm an American. I have relatives that fought in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WW1, WW2, and the Korean War. In particular, these are my father's opinions, very strongly held by him. I did not earn them like he did in combat, but he's gone now and so I carry on. He told me once that he fought so I wouldn't have to. Never forget that our freedoms were all paid for with blood, lots of blood. > It's everyone else's country as much as yours. Yes. I see people all the time eager to throw away our rights that were so bitterly fought for. The Constitution also has a lot of checks and balances meant to make it difficult to for people to throw it away. > all protest is suspect in our great democracy You can protest all you like. But our freedoms do not include the right to impede other peoples' rights to go about their business.
    - defrost 3y ago
      So, ... destroying an entire shipment of tea owned by a business is quintessentially un-American and a gross transgression of American Rights?
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        That happened before America existed. If somebody tried that today, they would (and should) be liable for the cost of the tea. There is no right to destroy other peoples' property.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      > They infringe on our rights. Do you really believe there is a right to harass others? It depends on your definition of "harass", but yes, absolutely. You have a right to express, including through protest, your opinions to others who don't want to hear them. Specifically, there is no right to not be harassed. There are laws against certain forms of it, but that's not a 'right' in a traditional sense, like the right to free speech, or 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'. Obviously, 'harassment' is such a broad term, it's a way to censor and oppress and especially to silence anyone who disagrees with the status quo. They must allow the status quo to continue or they are harassers. >> And who are you to tell other Americans what's American or not? > I'm an American. I have relatives that fought in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WW1, WW2, and the Korean War. The other people are Americans too; you have no extra rights there. What you or your relatives did gives you no extra rights at all under any law or democratic custom. > I see people all the time eager to throw away our rights that were so bitterly fought for. That's what I see you advocating, trying to suppress dissent that you don't like. > our freedoms do not include the right to impede other peoples' rights to go about their business. They absolutely do, again depending the definition of "impede". That's what protest is, and you can see it in protests going back centuries. It's a free country and you're going to have to deal with people doing things you don't like. Also, it's an argument for the status quo - going about their business may mean impeding others' rights. As the admittedly over-simplistic example, slave merchants impeded others' rights, and impeding the merchants protected rights.

WalterBright 3y ago

There's nothing un-American about activism. People are free to hold and express whatever beliefs they want. But when they want to force their beliefs on others, by: 1. shouting down anyone with a different view 2. requiring "loyalty oaths" from the staff 3. harassing others who disagree with them 4. trying to block roads and otherwise impede people from going about their business that is anti-American.

wolverine876 3y ago
What makes those anti-American? What does it have to do with the US in particular? And who are you to tell other Americans what's American or not? That assertion is what is fundamentally un-American. It's everyone else's country as much as yours. > 4. trying to block roads and otherwise impede people from going about their business That is the fundamental nature of protest, stopping people from going about their business. The whole point is that the issue is being ignored. Suddenly, all protest is suspect in our great democracy.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > What makes those anti-American? They infringe on our rights. Do you really believe there is a right to harass others? > What does it have to do with the US in particular? It's the US that has a Constitution, a Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, etc. Of course, any other nation is free to adopt them as well, and become American. > And who are you to tell other Americans what's American or not? I'm an American. I have relatives that fought in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WW1, WW2, and the Korean War. In particular, these are my father's opinions, very strongly held by him. I did not earn them like he did in combat, but he's gone now and so I carry on. He told me once that he fought so I wouldn't have to. Never forget that our freedoms were all paid for with blood, lots of blood. > It's everyone else's country as much as yours. Yes. I see people all the time eager to throw away our rights that were so bitterly fought for. The Constitution also has a lot of checks and balances meant to make it difficult to for people to throw it away. > all protest is suspect in our great democracy You can protest all you like. But our freedoms do not include the right to impede other peoples' rights to go about their business.
  - defrost 3y ago
    So, ... destroying an entire shipment of tea owned by a business is quintessentially un-American and a gross transgression of American Rights?
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      That happened before America existed. If somebody tried that today, they would (and should) be liable for the cost of the tea. There is no right to destroy other peoples' property.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > They infringe on our rights. Do you really believe there is a right to harass others? It depends on your definition of "harass", but yes, absolutely. You have a right to express, including through protest, your opinions to others who don't want to hear them. Specifically, there is no right to not be harassed. There are laws against certain forms of it, but that's not a 'right' in a traditional sense, like the right to free speech, or 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'. Obviously, 'harassment' is such a broad term, it's a way to censor and oppress and especially to silence anyone who disagrees with the status quo. They must allow the status quo to continue or they are harassers. >> And who are you to tell other Americans what's American or not? > I'm an American. I have relatives that fought in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WW1, WW2, and the Korean War. The other people are Americans too; you have no extra rights there. What you or your relatives did gives you no extra rights at all under any law or democratic custom. > I see people all the time eager to throw away our rights that were so bitterly fought for. That's what I see you advocating, trying to suppress dissent that you don't like. > our freedoms do not include the right to impede other peoples' rights to go about their business. They absolutely do, again depending the definition of "impede". That's what protest is, and you can see it in protests going back centuries. It's a free country and you're going to have to deal with people doing things you don't like. Also, it's an argument for the status quo - going about their business may mean impeding others' rights. As the admittedly over-simplistic example, slave merchants impeded others' rights, and impeding the merchants protected rights.