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KVM is free. ZFS is free. Linux & BSD are free. The margins on server kit are tiny. If I've grown to the point that I need to buy my own hardware, the appli

KVM is free. ZFS is free. Linux & BSD are free. The margins on server kit are tiny. If I've grown to the point that I need to buy my own hardware, the application software is probably something written in-house, so no licensing there either. Oxide gets plugged here non-stop, but the audience here still struggles to see what the point is. Sounds like a vanity project to keep some of the old Solaris talent in-pocket. edit: and the current growth-area is GPU/ML processing, where Oxide has bupkis.

away271828 3y ago
One can simultaneously be impressed by the engineering while wondering if this level of custom implementation at what will probably be pretty low scale really makes sense.
- hello_computer 3y ago
  Bezos had a clear proposition: "I can handle your workload better than you can for X cents per hour." Cantrill doesn't.
  - linksnapzz 3y ago
    Bezos's proposition needed to be qualified for each customer; in some cases, he was wrong. Yes, sometimes renting other people's hardware makes sense, for a time, until it doesn't.
    - hello_computer 3y ago
      I wrote 'proposition', not 'fact'. Jeff made a simple proposal, then I, as the customer, can evaluate it, accept it, or reject it. 0xide doesn't have a simple proposal. They have a constellation of nitpicks and tastes, but that's not good enough. The typical consumer in this space wants quantifiables.
linksnapzz 3y ago
>KVM is free. ZFS is free. Linux & BSD are free. Your time, hopefully, isn't. >The margins on server kit are tiny. And man, does it ever show. >Oxide gets plugged here non-stop, but the audience here still struggles to see what the point is. I'd like someone to appreciate music with; but alas, my cat doesn't like Debussy, she likes tuna, and I must love my cat for what she is. That the HN audience struggles to see the point of a properly-integrated systems offering isn't an indictment of that offering. They (and good for them!) may never have had the professional experience of having to manage a large enterprise IT resource on questionable hardware with indifferent software support from multiple vendors. >Sounds like a vanity project to keep some of the old Solaris talent in-pocket. Then that would be a vanity project for Oracle; but I believe that ship has sailed. >the current growth-area is GPU/ML processing, where Oxide has bupkis. Nobody but nvidia has anything hw-wise in that area (for the moment...).
- hello_computer 3y ago
  > Your time, hopefully, isn't. Even on low-end hardware, the cost of competent deployment amortizes to zero. Like most industrial pursuits, the deployment cost of the first box is high; the cost for each additional box is orders-of-magnitude less. Add the end of Moore's Law into the mix--getting many years of economic service out of boxes that would have been obsolete within the year--the cost is lower still. There are people out there who've been running aisles of rock-bottom supermicro gear, for almost decade, without incident. Gabriel's Law: "worse is better". FAANG rode Gabriel's law to the bank. > Then that would be a vanity project for Oracle As for "in-pocket", I did not mean Frankenstein's Solaris. I meant Operation Paperclip. Knowledge was acquired on someone else's dime, and it would be imprudent to leave this talent disengaged--to be retrieved and used by one's competitors. > Nobody but nvidia has anything hw-wise in that area Exactly. That is the castle that needs to be stormed. That is where the treasure is. 0xide is running a war against an already-dying kingdom. They might as well be playing minecraft.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    > There are people out there who've been running aisles of rock-bottom supermicro gear, for almost decade, without incident. Have there? But not you I take it? Bryan worked at joyant and ran a public cloud on dell and supermicro gear. And it seems they had plenty of problems. I have heard the same sentiment im other places. Additional evidence comes from the cloud providers themselves. Why did all of them develop their own stuff if operations with that stuff is so problem free? Google tried it and rejected it quickly.
panick21_ 3y ago
> edit: and the current growth-area is GPU/ML processing, where Oxide has bupkis. Yes and about 5000 startups plus many large going after that market. The market Oxide is after is proven to be large, not very innovative and very few new competitors. And guess what, its not industrial maschines that survive 50 years. Servers are not cost effective after a few years, so there is a lot of turnover. Costumer also don't have a huge amount of brand loyality. I can see worse buissness strategies then that.

away271828 3y ago

One can simultaneously be impressed by the engineering while wondering if this level of custom implementation at what will probably be pretty low scale really makes sense.

hello_computer 3y ago
Bezos had a clear proposition: "I can handle your workload better than you can for X cents per hour." Cantrill doesn't.
- linksnapzz 3y ago
  Bezos's proposition needed to be qualified for each customer; in some cases, he was wrong. Yes, sometimes renting other people's hardware makes sense, for a time, until it doesn't.
  - hello_computer 3y ago
    I wrote 'proposition', not 'fact'. Jeff made a simple proposal, then I, as the customer, can evaluate it, accept it, or reject it. 0xide doesn't have a simple proposal. They have a constellation of nitpicks and tastes, but that's not good enough. The typical consumer in this space wants quantifiables.

linksnapzz 3y ago

>KVM is free. ZFS is free. Linux & BSD are free. Your time, hopefully, isn't. >The margins on server kit are tiny. And man, does it ever show. >Oxide gets plugged here non-stop, but the audience here still struggles to see what the point is. I'd like someone to appreciate music with; but alas, my cat doesn't like Debussy, she likes tuna, and I must love my cat for what she is. That the HN audience struggles to see the point of a properly-integrated systems offering isn't an indictment of that offering. They (and good for them!) may never have had the professional experience of having to manage a large enterprise IT resource on questionable hardware with indifferent software support from multiple vendors. >Sounds like a vanity project to keep some of the old Solaris talent in-pocket. Then that would be a vanity project for Oracle; but I believe that ship has sailed. >the current growth-area is GPU/ML processing, where Oxide has bupkis. Nobody but nvidia has anything hw-wise in that area (for the moment...).

hello_computer 3y ago
> Your time, hopefully, isn't. Even on low-end hardware, the cost of competent deployment amortizes to zero. Like most industrial pursuits, the deployment cost of the first box is high; the cost for each additional box is orders-of-magnitude less. Add the end of Moore's Law into the mix--getting many years of economic service out of boxes that would have been obsolete within the year--the cost is lower still. There are people out there who've been running aisles of rock-bottom supermicro gear, for almost decade, without incident. Gabriel's Law: "worse is better". FAANG rode Gabriel's law to the bank. > Then that would be a vanity project for Oracle As for "in-pocket", I did not mean Frankenstein's Solaris. I meant Operation Paperclip. Knowledge was acquired on someone else's dime, and it would be imprudent to leave this talent disengaged--to be retrieved and used by one's competitors. > Nobody but nvidia has anything hw-wise in that area Exactly. That is the castle that needs to be stormed. That is where the treasure is. 0xide is running a war against an already-dying kingdom. They might as well be playing minecraft.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  > There are people out there who've been running aisles of rock-bottom supermicro gear, for almost decade, without incident. Have there? But not you I take it? Bryan worked at joyant and ran a public cloud on dell and supermicro gear. And it seems they had plenty of problems. I have heard the same sentiment im other places. Additional evidence comes from the cloud providers themselves. Why did all of them develop their own stuff if operations with that stuff is so problem free? Google tried it and rejected it quickly.

panick21_ 3y ago

> edit: and the current growth-area is GPU/ML processing, where Oxide has bupkis. Yes and about 5000 startups plus many large going after that market. The market Oxide is after is proven to be large, not very innovative and very few new competitors. And guess what, its not industrial maschines that survive 50 years. Servers are not cost effective after a few years, so there is a lot of turnover. Costumer also don't have a huge amount of brand loyality. I can see worse buissness strategies then that.