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Both the app and the server is open source https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android https://github.com/signalapp

Both the app and the server is open source https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server There are forks like Session which doesn't require a phone number to sign up https://github.com/oxen-io/session-android https://github.com/oxen-io/session-android

smt88 3y ago
I understand this, but Signal doesn't attempt to tolerate third-party apps on their servers as far as I know. They don't support interoperability.
- godelski 3y ago
  You can run Signal app forks on the Signal server. Molly is a popular one. You just can't create new servers. I wish you could, but I get the reasoning of not wanting honeypots. But that doesn't stop you from running your own network of Signal servers. So I don't see anything stopping anyone. I mean Mullvad runs their own stuff and I don't see half the complaints about them. I've always been curious why Signal is so unique here. If 1/100th the people that made these concerns developed a open community of signal servers, I'm sure we'd have a viable alternative network. What's stopping everyone?
  - AJ007 3y ago
    One of the big lessons from Twitter and Reddit was third party apps are tolerated or even encouraged until they are not. Unlike, for example Discord, I haven't see any indication that third party clients are causing account bans, yet. The status of open source, privacy respecting messaging apps looks really healthy to me, compared to where we've been over the past 30+ years (thinking starting with ICQ.) Signal was a big leap toward getting average people using much more secure messaging, although it is pretty clear even most 'tech' people don't grasp what is going on or why it is important to be able to use e2ee separate from a combined client+server provider.
    - godelski 3y ago
      Yes, but my argument is more in the realms of "why are there no projects to create an open network using the existing architecture" not "we shouldn't have an open network and completely rely on Signal forever."
  - xorcist 3y ago
    The Signal devs have been very clear that they consider forked or third party clients freeloaders and will cut them off, sooner or later.
    - godelski 3y ago
      Source? Sounds like even a bigger reason to create a parallel network
      - LtWorf 3y ago
        I recall reading this as well on their website
        godelski 3y ago
        I'd still appreciate a source. There's things I'm aware of that I think could be confused with this, but I've seen no indication of them actually wanting to or even caring about forks. Only in the servers. In fact, in this thread they are discussing how you can, with Molly, use both the official and staging servers with the same number: https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-fork-with-passphrase-lock-molly/12076 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-fork-with-passphr... A mod recommends Molly here: https://community.signalusers.org/t/how-to-use-signal-on-3-devices/57097/2 https://community.signalusers.org/t/how-to-use-signal-on-3-d... A list of forks: https://community.signalusers.org/t/list-of-unofficial-forks-and-patches/11629/2 https://community.signalusers.org/t/list-of-unofficial-forks... And here's people arguing: https://community.signalusers.org/t/on-forking-signal/31651/2 https://community.signalusers.org/t/on-forking-signal/31651/... As far as I can tell, Signal's policy is more "Do what you want, but server costs are high so we don't want to pay for your product. But if you do, here's all the code to give you a start." That's a very different policy from blacklisting. And as I keep asking others, what's stopping everyone from making a federated Signal? If you can use the same account on both the production/official server and the staging server, why can't you on the production server __and__ a community federated server? And if they ban you from the production server, so what? Now you're on par with literally every other federated service. Like what is Signal going to do? Stop open sourcing code? That'd be like trying to kill a mosquito by stabbing yourself in the heart. If they're willing to do that, I'd rather it be sooner than later anyways. So I want a source because I just don't get what you all are complaining about. Is it just that someone else didn't make the thing you want? Sure, I get frustrated, but the comments more come off as Signal being nefarious and I just don't see Signal acting in any way malicious. In fact, hosting links to forks and being a common place for those forks to discuss seems like they are actively supporting them.

smt88 3y ago

I understand this, but Signal doesn't attempt to tolerate third-party apps on their servers as far as I know. They don't support interoperability.

godelski 3y ago
You can run Signal app forks on the Signal server. Molly is a popular one. You just can't create new servers. I wish you could, but I get the reasoning of not wanting honeypots. But that doesn't stop you from running your own network of Signal servers. So I don't see anything stopping anyone. I mean Mullvad runs their own stuff and I don't see half the complaints about them. I've always been curious why Signal is so unique here. If 1/100th the people that made these concerns developed a open community of signal servers, I'm sure we'd have a viable alternative network. What's stopping everyone?
- AJ007 3y ago
  One of the big lessons from Twitter and Reddit was third party apps are tolerated or even encouraged until they are not. Unlike, for example Discord, I haven't see any indication that third party clients are causing account bans, yet. The status of open source, privacy respecting messaging apps looks really healthy to me, compared to where we've been over the past 30+ years (thinking starting with ICQ.) Signal was a big leap toward getting average people using much more secure messaging, although it is pretty clear even most 'tech' people don't grasp what is going on or why it is important to be able to use e2ee separate from a combined client+server provider.
  - godelski 3y ago
    Yes, but my argument is more in the realms of "why are there no projects to create an open network using the existing architecture" not "we shouldn't have an open network and completely rely on Signal forever."
- xorcist 3y ago
  The Signal devs have been very clear that they consider forked or third party clients freeloaders and will cut them off, sooner or later.
  - godelski 3y ago
    Source? Sounds like even a bigger reason to create a parallel network
    - LtWorf 3y ago
      I recall reading this as well on their website
      - godelski 3y ago
        I'd still appreciate a source. There's things I'm aware of that I think could be confused with this, but I've seen no indication of them actually wanting to or even caring about forks. Only in the servers. In fact, in this thread they are discussing how you can, with Molly, use both the official and staging servers with the same number: https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-fork-with-passphrase-lock-molly/12076 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-fork-with-passphr... A mod recommends Molly here: https://community.signalusers.org/t/how-to-use-signal-on-3-devices/57097/2 https://community.signalusers.org/t/how-to-use-signal-on-3-d... A list of forks: https://community.signalusers.org/t/list-of-unofficial-forks-and-patches/11629/2 https://community.signalusers.org/t/list-of-unofficial-forks... And here's people arguing: https://community.signalusers.org/t/on-forking-signal/31651/2 https://community.signalusers.org/t/on-forking-signal/31651/... As far as I can tell, Signal's policy is more "Do what you want, but server costs are high so we don't want to pay for your product. But if you do, here's all the code to give you a start." That's a very different policy from blacklisting. And as I keep asking others, what's stopping everyone from making a federated Signal? If you can use the same account on both the production/official server and the staging server, why can't you on the production server __and__ a community federated server? And if they ban you from the production server, so what? Now you're on par with literally every other federated service. Like what is Signal going to do? Stop open sourcing code? That'd be like trying to kill a mosquito by stabbing yourself in the heart. If they're willing to do that, I'd rather it be sooner than later anyways. So I want a source because I just don't get what you all are complaining about. Is it just that someone else didn't make the thing you want? Sure, I get frustrated, but the comments more come off as Signal being nefarious and I just don't see Signal acting in any way malicious. In fact, hosting links to forks and being a common place for those forks to discuss seems like they are actively supporting them.