7 ms·
As someone who holds three nationalities, and is 2 years away from a fourth: I look forward to the day I hold none. Beligerence of the "State" knows no bounds,
by mahmud 14y ago
As someone who holds three nationalities, and is 2 years away from a fourth: I look forward to the day I hold none.
Beligerence of the "State" knows no bounds, I hope we can free ourselves from this regressive construct and, once again, live in this world judged by our own merit and character, beholden to none.
- joering2 14y agoyou want to live in a "free state" but yet you are acquiring just another citizenship? it feels to me like a meat lover giving a presentation on a vegan conference how beautiful world would be if we all eat veggies only, lol! btw: how is the custom board patrol treating you when you cross? some countries like in US while pulling up your name they can see all nationalities you have. I would assume they are hostile towards you in some way, right?
- rdtsc 14y ago> some countries like in US while pulling up your name they can see all nationalities you have How does a third world tell US which are its citizens. Doubt there is a global citizenship database? Is there?
- joering2 14y agoI would imagine by now there are some treaties between most nations that exchange such information. There is also passporting system. You gave them any sort of passport (at least here in US) and they will look it up in the computer. They have to be looking up some sort of database, right?) I could imagine someone holding so many citizenships would be very valuable asset to government agency that hire spies.
- refurb 14y agoIndeed there are! This one is just for signals intelligence, but you can be sure that they share a lot more than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement "The United Kingdom – United States of America Agreement (UKUSA, /juːkuːˈsɑː/ ew-koo-sah)[1][2] is a multilateral agreement for cooperation in signals intelligence among the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand."
- jarek 14y agoI think you would be required to disclose your other citizenships when obtaining the U.S. one. They wouldn't necessarily know about others if you got the American one by birth, though if you were born abroad you can be sure that's going to be in the profile.
- jseliger 14y agoMaybe, but if you're in a country that's going to hell (Russia invades Georgia, Rwanda in 1994) and you're a U.S. citizen, you can be evacuated. In addition, if you're captured in the United States and labeled a "terrorist," you're less likely to be tortured and held in "black" facilities if you're a U.S. citizen. Perhaps not an optimal reason, but it still exists.
- mahmud 14y agoThe U.S. embassy has evacuated my family and we're still paying for it. It's not free. We could have hired a private militia and escaped to safety for 5% of what we paid the state department.
- jstabbac 14y agoCould you elaborate? I'm interested in knowing more. Where were you, how much did it cost, what services were provided?
- mikerice 14y agoYes, if you go somewhere that's dangerous, the local embassy will usually warn you to leave asap if something is going down. It's not a free pass to get out. If you want that, become a diplomat.
- waffle_ss 14y agoI'm kind of glad to hear that it isn't free. U.S. taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize the risks that some take to travel to dangerous areas, even if it's an aid worker (most recently, like [this guy][1]). [1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/world/asia/kidnapped-american-warren-weinstein-appears-in-qaeda-video.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/world/asia/kidnapped-ameri...
- nirvana 14y agoMind sharing which one you're pursuing or which ones you think are worthy nationalities to hold?
- mahmud 14y agoBe a U.S. citizen but don't live there. That is the best option of them all, and one I took.
- mahyarm 14y agoWhy not be Canadian and not live in the USA?
- jarek 14y agoIf you aren't a permanent resident you are almost always tied to your current job, and can technically be required to leave within two weeks if you are laid off or fired. (Getting a new job that would accommodate your visa requirements on a two-week notice might not be trivial.) If you are a permanent resident, you are subject to many of the annoyances discussed (i.e., IRS) without the benefits of citizenship...
- ios84dev 14y agoBut then you still have to pay taxes on worldwide income right?
- achille2 14y agoMind listing out the countries, and how one goes about becoming a citizenship collector? My parents sacrificed an incredible deal to come to the US. For the life of me I can't comprehend why someone would do this. Loss of citizenship is permanent. Your kids lose it as well. Why would derek would do this to his kids.
- secure1234 14y agoHis wife has dual citizenships in the U.S./India.
- mih 14y agoIndia does not allow dual citizenships. Rather people of Indian origin get the equivalent of a lifetime visa should they choose to be citizens of other countries, but this can be in no way equated with citizenship.
- dangoor 14y agoMy wife is Indian with US citizenship. As far as we've been able to tell, India does not allow dual citizenship (a quick google turns up many references to this, including Wikipedia). An Indian who becomes a US citizen can become an "Overseas Citizen of India" (OCI) which is not exactly the same as citizenship (you can't vote in India on that status, for example)
- secure1234 14y agoI heard that she's Indian, so she might just be a citizen there.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- jarek 14y ago> For the life of me I can't comprehend why someone would do this. Loss of citizenship is permanent. Your kids lose it as well. Why would derek would do this to his kids. Maybe he doesn't want his kids to have to deal with the U.S. I.R.S. every year of their life, regardless of whether or not they live in the U.S.? Just one of the possible reasons.
- InclinedPlane 14y agoThe idealogically pure idea of stateless citizens working in harmony of their own free accord is a fantasy that doesn't mesh with reality and just as dangerous as any Marxist Communist fantasy. In the right here and right now states are far from perfect, and we are in the middle of a period where lots of forces are pushing for greater consolidation of power in the hands of the state. But the benefit of having governments (some of them at least) still outweighs the extreme dangers of not having them.
- biomene 14y agoIn what way is communism dangerous? I fail to see any inherent danger in a form of society that distributes its wealth evenly across its citizens.
- InclinedPlane 14y agoThe pursuit of communism resulted in the tragic deaths of over 100 million innocents during the 20th century. More than were killed by Nazism, Facism, and Japanese Imperialism combined. And that is merely the darkest portion of the shadow that communism has cast on human civilization, the full extent of suffering and loss is on a scale that makes the Black Death look like a walk in the park.
- jebblue 14y agoOf interest to those who are down voting you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_communism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_communism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
- morestuff 14y agoHistory can't convince a nerd until you show that history was caused by an intrinsic quality, not an accidental one. I think it touches too closely to 'decline of pirates linked to increase in global warming' without any explanation of how their ice cold hearts kept us cool.
- ma2rten 14y agoI also hold three passports. I think that having multiple nationalities does make you see how arbitrary the concept of a nation state is (getting privileges solely because of your place of birth or who your parents are), however I don't see that changing anytime soon, because there is not really a realistic alternative. EDIT: In case people are interested, my nationalities are: Dutch, German, Canadian. I was born with all three of them (even though I found out only much later). I would loose both my Dutch and my German citizenship if I were to acquire another one.
- monochromatic 14y agoThe belligerence of the state doesn't hold a candle to the belligerence of unfettered individuals.
- ChuckMcM 14y agoPerhaps the most interesting aspect of the discussion of Sealand on Ars Technica [1] was the notion of 'laws of state' vs 'laws of self' which is really nicely explained in this PDF http://illinoislawreview.org/wp-content/ilr-content/articles/2012/2/Grimmelmann.pdf http://illinoislawreview.org/wp-content/ilr-content/articles... . The money quote being: "Juxtaposing these three theories of the rule of law allows us to see that there is something deeply anomalous in HavenCo’s simultaneous rejection of national self-government and embrace of formal legality and restraint on government. Having started from the premise that the political systems of existing nations could never be trusted to protect free speech, HavenCo needed a place outside of them to stand while it beamed its bits their way and undermined their national Internet laws. That place needed to be able to stand up to annoyed nations, which led HavenCo to seek Sealand, with its colorable claims to sovereignty. And once HavenCo had chosen a protector with power, it also needed to be protected from the abuse of that power. HavenCo expected international law to protect it from the rest of the world and expected Sealand law to protect it from Sealand itself." We can discuss and agree that people have fundamental rights, but having that discussion only makes sense in the context of establishing a way of enforcing those rights. The day you hold 'no' citizenship is the day that nobody is going to help protect your rights and you become someone else's slave. That isn't a day I would look forward too. [1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/03/sealand-and-havenco.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/03/sealand-and-...
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]