5 ms·

> University faculty-activists are a perfect example of elite overproduction a la Turchin. The faculty pushing back against "administrative encroachment" and s

> University faculty-activists are a perfect example of elite overproduction a la Turchin. The faculty pushing back against "administrative encroachment" and seeking "the primacy of teaching, learning and research" are your perfect example of an over produced elite?

tines 3y ago
No, the faculty-activists are the ones _being pushed back against_ by the faculty seeking the "primacy of teaching."
- rKarpinski 3y ago
  But the only faculty-activists are the 'Faculty for Yale' mentioned in the article? Administrators (and students) are not faculty.
  - 2devnull 3y ago
    Mentioned in the article, maybe. But it’s common knowledge that most faculty today are de facto activists, they just done self identify as such usually.
    - rKarpinski 3y ago
      Is it common knowledge? My understanding is that it's generally the administrators and students who are the main forces of activism on campus, not the faculty (outside of some departments).
    - aaplok 3y ago
      > it’s common knowledge that most faculty today are de facto activists. Whose common knowledge? I have never heard the argument that most faculties are activists. This argument is a classic ad populum fallacy [0]. Using it to characterise (and discredit) and entire group is not a honorable thing to do. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
      - 2devnull 3y ago
        Listen to the recent pinker mearsheimer debate. Pinker would be a good person to advocate for the triumph of enlightenment values and where else would those values be most evident than the academy, and yet Jewish students are made to cower in fear at the student mobs tolerated, if not in effect manufactured by the educators at the nations’ highest institutions, Harvard, Penn, MIT… I know people who were in forced out of grad school for not engaging in activism, let alone committing the ultimate sin, having heterodox views. Perhaps that’s less common in STEM, where politics are non-essential, but it’s de rigeur in social sciences and I’d imagine much of the humanities. It’s common knowledge in many circles that you’ll get different education at Claremont vs berkeley.
        rKarpinski 3y ago
        > It’s common knowledge in many circles that you’ll get different education at Claremont vs berkeley. Out of curiosity, whats the difference? Both sound like disconnected ivory towers to me...
        gnicholas 3y ago
        CMC is one of the least-left-leaning schools, among elite colleges.
        rKarpinski 3y ago
        Interesting I didn't know the reputation. Berkeley has had the left leaning historical reputation from the days of the free speech movement and Vietnam protests. But these days (it-least from an outsiders view) it actually seems more grounded since it's a public school & doesn't do race based admissions (Berkeley is 35% asian & 20% white vs CMC is 16% asian and 35% white)[1][2] [1] https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/university-of-california-berkeley/campus-life https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/university-of-ca... [2] https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/claremont-mckenna-college/campus-life https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/claremont-mckenn...
    - thereticent 3y ago
      It's not common knowledge; it's a common misconception. And it's pushed heavily by anti-intellectual, anti-academic people in order to advance agenda.
- aaplok 3y ago
  From the article: "The concerns articulated in the FfY formation statement pertain to universities — and not their members! — as activists". They push back on institutions taking up activism, not individual faculties engaging in activism.

tines 3y ago

No, the faculty-activists are the ones _being pushed back against_ by the faculty seeking the "primacy of teaching."

rKarpinski 3y ago
But the only faculty-activists are the 'Faculty for Yale' mentioned in the article? Administrators (and students) are not faculty.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Mentioned in the article, maybe. But it’s common knowledge that most faculty today are de facto activists, they just done self identify as such usually.
  - rKarpinski 3y ago
    Is it common knowledge? My understanding is that it's generally the administrators and students who are the main forces of activism on campus, not the faculty (outside of some departments).
  - aaplok 3y ago
    > it’s common knowledge that most faculty today are de facto activists. Whose common knowledge? I have never heard the argument that most faculties are activists. This argument is a classic ad populum fallacy [0]. Using it to characterise (and discredit) and entire group is not a honorable thing to do. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
    - 2devnull 3y ago
      Listen to the recent pinker mearsheimer debate. Pinker would be a good person to advocate for the triumph of enlightenment values and where else would those values be most evident than the academy, and yet Jewish students are made to cower in fear at the student mobs tolerated, if not in effect manufactured by the educators at the nations’ highest institutions, Harvard, Penn, MIT… I know people who were in forced out of grad school for not engaging in activism, let alone committing the ultimate sin, having heterodox views. Perhaps that’s less common in STEM, where politics are non-essential, but it’s de rigeur in social sciences and I’d imagine much of the humanities. It’s common knowledge in many circles that you’ll get different education at Claremont vs berkeley.
      - rKarpinski 3y ago
        > It’s common knowledge in many circles that you’ll get different education at Claremont vs berkeley. Out of curiosity, whats the difference? Both sound like disconnected ivory towers to me...
        gnicholas 3y ago
        CMC is one of the least-left-leaning schools, among elite colleges.
        rKarpinski 3y ago
        Interesting I didn't know the reputation. Berkeley has had the left leaning historical reputation from the days of the free speech movement and Vietnam protests. But these days (it-least from an outsiders view) it actually seems more grounded since it's a public school & doesn't do race based admissions (Berkeley is 35% asian & 20% white vs CMC is 16% asian and 35% white)[1][2] [1] https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/university-of-california-berkeley/campus-life https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/university-of-ca... [2] https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/claremont-mckenna-college/campus-life https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/claremont-mckenn...
  - thereticent 3y ago
    It's not common knowledge; it's a common misconception. And it's pushed heavily by anti-intellectual, anti-academic people in order to advance agenda.
aaplok 3y ago
From the article: "The concerns articulated in the FfY formation statement pertain to universities — and not their members! — as activists". They push back on institutions taking up activism, not individual faculties engaging in activism.