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> There probably isn't any reason to start a new app or library with anything other than Swift. Unless you do anything for MacOS and care about MacOS. Most Swi

by troupo 3y ago

> There probably isn't any reason to start a new app or library with anything other than Swift. Unless you do anything for MacOS and care about MacOS. Most Swift UI apps I've seen feel foreign on MacOS in innumerable ways.

ironlake 3y ago
Thanks for that perspective. I haven't done any MacOS development.
- troupo 3y ago
  Since Swift UI is iOS-first, when the apps get ported to MacOS, they bring a lot of mobile-isms: the views and animations are often wrong, the controls are often wrong (like even the Apple's own settings app breaks a lot of established platform conventions and Apple's own HIGs), integration with system services is often incomplete (like proper keyboard shortcuts, I can't set a shortcut for Conversations->Delete in Messages anymore) etc. Because of that I've seen people discuss that they have to reach for AppKit and/or ditch SwiftUI and got all in with AppKit, and that is easier to do from Obj-C.
  - Reason077 3y ago
    > "people discuss that they have to reach for AppKit and/or ditch SwiftUI and got all in with AppKit, and that is easier to do from Obj-C." You can fairly easily port UIKit apps to macOS now with Mac Catalyst[1] No need to use SwiftUI to get those mobile-isms. [1] https://developer.apple.com/mac-catalyst/ https://developer.apple.com/mac-catalyst/
    - markemer 3y ago
      Also AppKit works perfectly well in swift. People just probably remember the ObjC versions of things better since that’s where this all started. But the naming is pretty standard if you remember the old calls.
    - troupo 3y ago
      Catalyst is just as bad IMO
sumuyuda 3y ago
You can use AppKit in Swift just like you can use UIKit on iOS. There is no requirement to use SwiftUI when creating a macOS swift app.
- markemer 3y ago
  Yeah the wrapper is the same, it’s just NSView instead of UIView and the like. But the API is wrapped just as well.

by troupo 3y ago

ironlake 3y ago

Thanks for that perspective. I haven't done any MacOS development.

troupo 3y ago
Since Swift UI is iOS-first, when the apps get ported to MacOS, they bring a lot of mobile-isms: the views and animations are often wrong, the controls are often wrong (like even the Apple's own settings app breaks a lot of established platform conventions and Apple's own HIGs), integration with system services is often incomplete (like proper keyboard shortcuts, I can't set a shortcut for Conversations->Delete in Messages anymore) etc. Because of that I've seen people discuss that they have to reach for AppKit and/or ditch SwiftUI and got all in with AppKit, and that is easier to do from Obj-C.
- Reason077 3y ago
  > "people discuss that they have to reach for AppKit and/or ditch SwiftUI and got all in with AppKit, and that is easier to do from Obj-C." You can fairly easily port UIKit apps to macOS now with Mac Catalyst[1] No need to use SwiftUI to get those mobile-isms. [1] https://developer.apple.com/mac-catalyst/ https://developer.apple.com/mac-catalyst/
  - markemer 3y ago
    Also AppKit works perfectly well in swift. People just probably remember the ObjC versions of things better since that’s where this all started. But the naming is pretty standard if you remember the old calls.
  - troupo 3y ago
    Catalyst is just as bad IMO

sumuyuda 3y ago

You can use AppKit in Swift just like you can use UIKit on iOS. There is no requirement to use SwiftUI when creating a macOS swift app.

markemer 3y ago
Yeah the wrapper is the same, it’s just NSView instead of UIView and the like. But the API is wrapped just as well.