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> Local media reported at the time of the amendments that changes were made to reflect trends in digital society management. I had not heard of this term, and

> Local media reported at the time of the amendments that changes were made to reflect trends in digital society management. I had not heard of this term, and I don't find much of substance regarding digital society management on the web. But it does seem to exist as a cluster of concepts at the union of academic, Orwellian, and marketing vocabularies. Sometimes you see a phrase and feel dread that you'll have to live in a world where it's just an ordinary thing people say. I remember when "Department of Homeland Security" felt dystopian. Now it feels like an ordinary, well-worn phrase that I intellectually know must be dystopian, but the nerve endings that used to tingle are now burned out. Here's to the continual process of redefining normal.

dudefeliciano 3y ago
this talk was pretty interesting and scary at ccc https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12004-please_identify_yourself https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12004-please_identify_yourself
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  Privacy was only one of the issues mentioned in that talk alongside exclusion/lockout, racism, compulsion or choice. The subtext seemed to be that the Indian project was reckless, violated multiple rights, and revealed multiple problems, whereas the European version observed UDHR and ECHR definitions of "right to privacy" and much more. In summary the Euro ID schedule is much more cautious. Resilience is a real problem in my view. When these systems go tits-up - and they will go spectacularly tits-up as biosciences and AI advance - the lack of alternatives like RFID cards, papers, trusted notaries etc will have a colossal impact. The danger is not the idea of legibility for digital governance (we already have that) but the blind, gushing enthusiasm to build one centralised system around singular technologies.
  - BlueTemplar 3y ago
    Yeah. > Vietnam’s future identity cards will incorporate the functions of health insurance cards, social insurance books, driver's licenses, birth certificates, and marriage certificates, as defined by the amendment. The project of digital file-sharing across administrations, all being tied to a single social security number, became a scandal and was made illegal for a reason !
belZaah 3y ago
The sad thing is, it does not have to be this way. Estonia has biometry-based identity, information sharing between agencies etc. and, I assure you, is not a dystopian hellhole because the way these things have been set up. You biometry, for example, is captured and used by one agency for one purpose only - to issue physical and electronic identity documents. Nobody else gets access. I helped build some of these things, have done research on how and why it functions. AMA.
- suddenclarity 3y ago
  The issue is that once the information exists, it will be used. Every infant in Sweden has had to supply a blood test for research since 1975. Then a murder happened and suddenly the police gained access to the database. Then a rape happened and the police requested access again. A few years ago politicians discussed opening it up for all "serious" crimes. Now they are changing the constitution to limit what one is allowed to say, extending what constitutes a crime. I'm all for limitations to stop famous cases of one person having 50 identities but the current path is not without risks. The data we collect today might be used differently in 30 or 50 years and then there's no turning back.

dudefeliciano 3y ago

this talk was pretty interesting and scary at ccc https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12004-please_identify_yourself https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12004-please_identify_yourself

nonrandomstring 3y ago
Privacy was only one of the issues mentioned in that talk alongside exclusion/lockout, racism, compulsion or choice. The subtext seemed to be that the Indian project was reckless, violated multiple rights, and revealed multiple problems, whereas the European version observed UDHR and ECHR definitions of "right to privacy" and much more. In summary the Euro ID schedule is much more cautious. Resilience is a real problem in my view. When these systems go tits-up - and they will go spectacularly tits-up as biosciences and AI advance - the lack of alternatives like RFID cards, papers, trusted notaries etc will have a colossal impact. The danger is not the idea of legibility for digital governance (we already have that) but the blind, gushing enthusiasm to build one centralised system around singular technologies.
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  Yeah. > Vietnam’s future identity cards will incorporate the functions of health insurance cards, social insurance books, driver's licenses, birth certificates, and marriage certificates, as defined by the amendment. The project of digital file-sharing across administrations, all being tied to a single social security number, became a scandal and was made illegal for a reason !

belZaah 3y ago

The sad thing is, it does not have to be this way. Estonia has biometry-based identity, information sharing between agencies etc. and, I assure you, is not a dystopian hellhole because the way these things have been set up. You biometry, for example, is captured and used by one agency for one purpose only - to issue physical and electronic identity documents. Nobody else gets access. I helped build some of these things, have done research on how and why it functions. AMA.

suddenclarity 3y ago
The issue is that once the information exists, it will be used. Every infant in Sweden has had to supply a blood test for research since 1975. Then a murder happened and suddenly the police gained access to the database. Then a rape happened and the police requested access again. A few years ago politicians discussed opening it up for all "serious" crimes. Now they are changing the constitution to limit what one is allowed to say, extending what constitutes a crime. I'm all for limitations to stop famous cases of one person having 50 identities but the current path is not without risks. The data we collect today might be used differently in 30 or 50 years and then there's no turning back.