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In my experience the boring "I delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil" will win over "I rearchitected a massive system to ru

In my experience the boring "I delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil" will win over "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices" At a certain point in your career, you'll realize that the business manager can override any technical hiring manager. Because at the end of the day delivering results is sexier, than bells and whistles in your resume.

tomaskafka 3y ago
That depends on interest rates - right now it's a rare time when saved millions suddenly appear worth more than freshly rewritten pile of microservices.
mkl95 3y ago
> "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices" Saving a company from political mayhem is a pretty good achievement to have on your resume. It's also impressive because most engineering teams give up early on.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Spivak 3y ago
> delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil The problem is that $100mil is all pixie fairy dust when you're working on a new project. I wish this wasn't true but it works out better for you to implement it as costly and complex as possible, show off how smart you are, then simplify it during a cost cutting initiative (wow they must be so smart to make such an obviously complex system so simple). The secret is that while you think you're getting away with something playing this game you're actually doing exactly what the business wants.
- heyodai 3y ago
  > ...while you think you're getting away with something playing this game you're actually doing exactly what the business wants. How so? I would think the business wants to spend as little money as possible.
  - wholinator2 3y ago
    Well maybe not what it wants, but probably (depending on culture) what it _rewards_.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    Nah, they want to bring in as much money as possible, subtle difference. High complexity (tech debt) and high costs (paying for expensive managed services) in service to time-to-ship is actually great. If it turns out that the market they predicted doesn't pan out they find out faster and just shut it down chalk it up to r&d costs for the tax break, and if it's so successful it costs them an arm and a let it's "good problems to have."
  - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
    A bit of an aside, but one of the most important things that I've learned over my career is that the business wants to make as much money as possible. This may seem similar to "wants to spend as little money as possible," but there's a big difference. Your floor is limited because you can only drop your costs to zero, but there's no ceiling on how much revenue you can make.
hliyan 3y ago
There's an old IEEE article about the billions of dollars lost due to software project failures: https://spectrum.ieee.org/why-software-fails https://spectrum.ieee.org/why-software-fails We don't hear of such failures any more because software projects (or products) no longer "fail" in the traditional sense -- they turn into endless money sinks of re-architectures, re-platforming, tech debt repayment or expensive maintenance, that can continue as long as the company has cash. When the company does run out of cash, it is difficult to say to what extent tech expenses or lack of revenue due to slow software delivery played a part.
loup-vaillant 3y ago
> In my experience the boring "I delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil" will win over "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices Good luck having the opportunity to work in a project where you have even the faintest idea how much money your contribution will make or save. I don't know about you, but never in my 17 year career have I had enough information to even attempt computing these numbers. And even if I could have, it was never part of my job description. So how did you know your numbers? Or if you didn't, how did you made them up for your interviews?
- mlhpdx 3y ago
  Honest question: if you’ve never known the tangible value of your work, how did you decide what to do? It’s an uncomfortable question to ask, but I genuinely don’t understand how that would be possible.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Your manager tells you? Or, higher up the career ladder, whatever is most urgent for the best-paying customer? Like, I know what's on the list to finish for the next multi-million-dollar payout from a major customer, but how my work contributes to it, compared to work done by 20+ other people involved in dev, operations, qa, deployment, customer negotiations, etc.? Who the fuck knows? Best I can estimate is how much it'll cost the company if I fail to deliver my piece on time.
    - aprdm 3y ago
      At a lot of companies I've worked at, the engineers are empowered to decide on what to work at, it's not like they're 100% booked by PMs. Even if PMs, they can argue. "Your manager tells you what to work on" isn't how big tech runs for the most part, in fact it's a bit sad to think that some people work like that
      - loup-vaillant 3y ago
        It's how most people had me work. It's how most of my colleagues had to work too. Just doing what my manager tells me to work on is what is considered normal and expected in… 8 of the 10 or so places I've worked at. The empowerment you speak of is but a faint dream in my town.
swader999 3y ago
Yes, and add in a couple, I saved the project or successfully competled the previously failing project...

tomaskafka 3y ago

That depends on interest rates - right now it's a rare time when saved millions suddenly appear worth more than freshly rewritten pile of microservices.

mkl95 3y ago

> "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices" Saving a company from political mayhem is a pretty good achievement to have on your resume. It's also impressive because most engineering teams give up early on.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Spivak 3y ago

> delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil The problem is that $100mil is all pixie fairy dust when you're working on a new project. I wish this wasn't true but it works out better for you to implement it as costly and complex as possible, show off how smart you are, then simplify it during a cost cutting initiative (wow they must be so smart to make such an obviously complex system so simple). The secret is that while you think you're getting away with something playing this game you're actually doing exactly what the business wants.

heyodai 3y ago
> ...while you think you're getting away with something playing this game you're actually doing exactly what the business wants. How so? I would think the business wants to spend as little money as possible.
- wholinator2 3y ago
  Well maybe not what it wants, but probably (depending on culture) what it _rewards_.
- Spivak 3y ago
  Nah, they want to bring in as much money as possible, subtle difference. High complexity (tech debt) and high costs (paying for expensive managed services) in service to time-to-ship is actually great. If it turns out that the market they predicted doesn't pan out they find out faster and just shut it down chalk it up to r&d costs for the tax break, and if it's so successful it costs them an arm and a let it's "good problems to have."
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  A bit of an aside, but one of the most important things that I've learned over my career is that the business wants to make as much money as possible. This may seem similar to "wants to spend as little money as possible," but there's a big difference. Your floor is limited because you can only drop your costs to zero, but there's no ceiling on how much revenue you can make.

hliyan 3y ago

There's an old IEEE article about the billions of dollars lost due to software project failures: https://spectrum.ieee.org/why-software-fails https://spectrum.ieee.org/why-software-fails We don't hear of such failures any more because software projects (or products) no longer "fail" in the traditional sense -- they turn into endless money sinks of re-architectures, re-platforming, tech debt repayment or expensive maintenance, that can continue as long as the company has cash. When the company does run out of cash, it is difficult to say to what extent tech expenses or lack of revenue due to slow software delivery played a part.

loup-vaillant 3y ago

> In my experience the boring "I delivered a project very fast with X,Y and Z and saved the company $100mil" will win over "I rearchitected a massive system to run on microservices Good luck having the opportunity to work in a project where you have even the faintest idea how much money your contribution will make or save. I don't know about you, but never in my 17 year career have I had enough information to even attempt computing these numbers. And even if I could have, it was never part of my job description. So how did you know your numbers? Or if you didn't, how did you made them up for your interviews?

mlhpdx 3y ago
Honest question: if you’ve never known the tangible value of your work, how did you decide what to do? It’s an uncomfortable question to ask, but I genuinely don’t understand how that would be possible.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Your manager tells you? Or, higher up the career ladder, whatever is most urgent for the best-paying customer? Like, I know what's on the list to finish for the next multi-million-dollar payout from a major customer, but how my work contributes to it, compared to work done by 20+ other people involved in dev, operations, qa, deployment, customer negotiations, etc.? Who the fuck knows? Best I can estimate is how much it'll cost the company if I fail to deliver my piece on time.
  - aprdm 3y ago
    At a lot of companies I've worked at, the engineers are empowered to decide on what to work at, it's not like they're 100% booked by PMs. Even if PMs, they can argue. "Your manager tells you what to work on" isn't how big tech runs for the most part, in fact it's a bit sad to think that some people work like that
    - loup-vaillant 3y ago
      It's how most people had me work. It's how most of my colleagues had to work too. Just doing what my manager tells me to work on is what is considered normal and expected in… 8 of the 10 or so places I've worked at. The empowerment you speak of is but a faint dream in my town.

swader999 3y ago

Yes, and add in a couple, I saved the project or successfully competled the previously failing project...