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He’s foisting himself into geopolitics and he’s going to be viewed through a lens of jingoism. Do you also try to find context and understand the facets of eve

He’s foisting himself into geopolitics and he’s going to be viewed through a lens of jingoism. Do you also try to find context and understand the facets of every geopolitical player? Do you figure the Russian federation needs to invade Ukraine because the western alliance against it has expanded along its border without buffer zones and competing client states? Kim Jong Un has to be brutal because if he isn’t than he’ll lose the great game of palace politics and he and his family will be killed. Israel has to destroy Hamas and Palestinian civilian collateral damage is inconsequential because 10 million people surrounded by hundreds of millions of people who despise them will end just like it did with Hadrian. Hamas has to fight Israel with brutal tactics because the land its people were on is being reclaimed and soon they will all have no place to go but as a diaspora. And after that they will disappear into cultural homogeneity of where they immigrated. You want to give Musk context? He’s a billionaire in the United States who has business ambitions in a major competing power (China). He can’t look too pro American so he supports Russia because his Chinese partners silently support Russia. Musk is deeply interested in himself and acquiring more wealth. He’s not a good guy he just wants to be the world’s first trillionaire outside of the Saudi royalty. In short, he sucks and he’s a greedy ass. Nuance? Context? Pick a side. You’re not a billionaire and you never will be. Musk doesn’t love you.

andsoitis 3y ago
One of Musk’s Achilles heels is that he is principled almost to a fault (at least that’s what it seems like from the outside since I cannot read his mind or see into his heart). That principled view can get in the way of being practical. One of Starlink’s stated principles is that the network is not meant for war (see the motives section I link to above). Now it could be because of moral reasons or it could be for practical reasons (compliance with new sets of laws and regulations). Starlink has provided Ukraine with service but it is being financed by the US government. They have refused to do the same for Russia. Earlier in the Israel/Hamas war, Musk announced Starlink service for humanitarian aid (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink-provide-connectivity-gaza-through-aid-organizations-2023-10-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink...). I haven’t followed whether that actually happened and to what degree but 6 days ago they announced service for an Emirati-run hospital in the south. > Musk doesn’t love you I can see how my points can come across as I’m running to the defense of the guy. What’s actually happening is that I’m trying to seek something closer to the truth than what my gut reactions and news sources lead me to conclude.
- Pigalowda 3y ago
  Principled to a fault is not the phrase I would use for him. That’s maybe a person like Cato. SpaceX has defense contracts with the US DoD. It can’t do business with Russian MoD or it loses the US contracts. It’s not about principles it’s about money. I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. There is no truth in politics. Do you care about the Walton family and their truth? I’m guessing no. Musk has inserted himself into global attention and is clearly doing and saying what’s best for Musk. If the principle of self interest is what you’re talking about then yea, I guess that’s true. He’s so self interested it’s what made him and it’s what will undo him.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. I suppose both of us are trying to one another and others (why else debate) because we both think we have it correct. :-)
    - Pigalowda 3y ago
      You are right and I suppose further debate isn't all that helpful as it won't move the needle in either direction. I guess here's "my truth" regarding Musk if you have time for it, if you don't that's OK too. I believe Musk very much wants to become the first trillionaire and is trying to longitudinally orient his businesses to achieve that goal. He can't really just do that in the US so it has to be a global endeavor. He's got EV factories in NA, Asia, and Europe. He wants or wanted a solar company as well as the charging stations, and his starlink will service the entire globe and can provide service to his cars and trucks across the world. With the US he doesn't really need to politically mesh with its foreign policy because his ambitions don't necessarily require American supremacy. If he can maintain a grip on his Chinese holdings and push product there to a population 3x that of the US then he may realize his goal. He gets to be the CEO of an international megacorp where people get their transportation, power, and communication. I believe all of his business forays are connected and as an American peasant I don't believe he has my best interests at heart. He could care less about the US rules based world order and is happy with any system that allows him to do business across the globe. So therefore I up the greens and you up the blues. Which is fine.
foverzar 3y ago
> Do you figure the Russian federation needs to invade Ukraine because the western alliance against it has expanded along its border without buffer zones and competing client states? The February 2022 events were triggered because Kyiv wasn't fulfilling the peace agreement with Donetsk for years. You can check OSCE reports for the week before the invasion and see that the ceasefire was completely trashed, as well as check out what Ukrainian leaders had said regarding the Minks agreements. One of them (Poroshenko) non-jokingly claimed that lying about peace agreements was a Sun Tsy tactics. In a world based on rules, lying about a peace agreement while preparing for war will only end badly (and it did). > who has business ambitions in a major competing power (China) Who hasn't? Lockheed Martin? > Nuance? Context? Pick a side. Musk doesn’t love you. Thanks, but no. I don’t need to “pick a side” and I am extremely suspicious of rationality and motives of everyone who pushes me to both abandon my principles and reason, and to fall into perceiving everything as a perfect mortal dichotomy with no escape. I’m neither that suicidal nor brutal. And it is definitely not about someone’s “love”, objective reality exists. Picking sides already got half-a-million people dead.
- jnsaff2 3y ago
  russians are very selective with their truth and which agreements they like keep for the day. Remember Budapest Memorandum? Remember the MRP pact with Hitler?
  - foverzar 3y ago
    > russians are very selective with their truth > Remember the MRP pact with Hitler? I am always in awe by the bitter-sweet irony of this particular bit. Because Russians actually remember MRP, as well as the fact that it was a direct response to the Munich Agreement and Poland and Hungary each tearing itself a piece of Czechoslovakia (yes, with Hitler), while Europeans desperately try to forget the later and play the victim of the former, despite them literally doing the same thing first and opening this can of worms themselves. But of course its the Russians who are being selective about truth. I honestly don't understand where did people in the west even got the idea that Russians don't know about about MRP. > Remember Budapest Memorandum? The one that was thrown away by US and EU when they had actively supported the coup/revolution of 2014? Sorry, you were saying something about selectively honoring agreements? You know, you probably should try having a serious talk with real Russians instead of relying on some thirdparty to build you a strawman.
foverzar 3y ago
> Kim Jong Un has to be brutal because if he isn’t than he’ll lose the great game of palace politics and he and his family will be killed. Also, it's worth giving a good thought whether North Korea is in such a sorry state because of a bad persona or maybe it could have something to do with the fact that these people get international treatement equivalent to "isolate 'em barbarian animals". It shouldn't be surprising that a country forced into a Stone Age lives like it's a Stone Age, compared to e.g. Saudi Arabia that gets more liberal over time as life goes on relatively chill. Yet somehow it is.
- Pigalowda 3y ago
  DPRK was more developed and wealthier than the south at the end of the UN intervention. Also they’re clearly in the former soviet and PRC sphere of influence. Saying the DPRK was forced into the Stone Age by the west gives the west a lot of credit and power and virtually none to DPRK and its own self determination. You know, the ancient Greeks were pretty smart. At the temple of the oracle of Delphi there apparently was an inscription that read “know thyself”. I have a feeling that if you’re a citizen of the west you fundamentally do not know who you are or where you are.

andsoitis 3y ago

One of Musk’s Achilles heels is that he is principled almost to a fault (at least that’s what it seems like from the outside since I cannot read his mind or see into his heart). That principled view can get in the way of being practical. One of Starlink’s stated principles is that the network is not meant for war (see the motives section I link to above). Now it could be because of moral reasons or it could be for practical reasons (compliance with new sets of laws and regulations). Starlink has provided Ukraine with service but it is being financed by the US government. They have refused to do the same for Russia. Earlier in the Israel/Hamas war, Musk announced Starlink service for humanitarian aid (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink-provide-connectivity-gaza-through-aid-organizations-2023-10-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink...). I haven’t followed whether that actually happened and to what degree but 6 days ago they announced service for an Emirati-run hospital in the south. > Musk doesn’t love you I can see how my points can come across as I’m running to the defense of the guy. What’s actually happening is that I’m trying to seek something closer to the truth than what my gut reactions and news sources lead me to conclude.

Pigalowda 3y ago
Principled to a fault is not the phrase I would use for him. That’s maybe a person like Cato. SpaceX has defense contracts with the US DoD. It can’t do business with Russian MoD or it loses the US contracts. It’s not about principles it’s about money. I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. There is no truth in politics. Do you care about the Walton family and their truth? I’m guessing no. Musk has inserted himself into global attention and is clearly doing and saying what’s best for Musk. If the principle of self interest is what you’re talking about then yea, I guess that’s true. He’s so self interested it’s what made him and it’s what will undo him.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. I suppose both of us are trying to one another and others (why else debate) because we both think we have it correct. :-)
  - Pigalowda 3y ago
    You are right and I suppose further debate isn't all that helpful as it won't move the needle in either direction. I guess here's "my truth" regarding Musk if you have time for it, if you don't that's OK too. I believe Musk very much wants to become the first trillionaire and is trying to longitudinally orient his businesses to achieve that goal. He can't really just do that in the US so it has to be a global endeavor. He's got EV factories in NA, Asia, and Europe. He wants or wanted a solar company as well as the charging stations, and his starlink will service the entire globe and can provide service to his cars and trucks across the world. With the US he doesn't really need to politically mesh with its foreign policy because his ambitions don't necessarily require American supremacy. If he can maintain a grip on his Chinese holdings and push product there to a population 3x that of the US then he may realize his goal. He gets to be the CEO of an international megacorp where people get their transportation, power, and communication. I believe all of his business forays are connected and as an American peasant I don't believe he has my best interests at heart. He could care less about the US rules based world order and is happy with any system that allows him to do business across the globe. So therefore I up the greens and you up the blues. Which is fine.

foverzar 3y ago

> Do you figure the Russian federation needs to invade Ukraine because the western alliance against it has expanded along its border without buffer zones and competing client states? The February 2022 events were triggered because Kyiv wasn't fulfilling the peace agreement with Donetsk for years. You can check OSCE reports for the week before the invasion and see that the ceasefire was completely trashed, as well as check out what Ukrainian leaders had said regarding the Minks agreements. One of them (Poroshenko) non-jokingly claimed that lying about peace agreements was a Sun Tsy tactics. In a world based on rules, lying about a peace agreement while preparing for war will only end badly (and it did). > who has business ambitions in a major competing power (China) Who hasn't? Lockheed Martin? > Nuance? Context? Pick a side. Musk doesn’t love you. Thanks, but no. I don’t need to “pick a side” and I am extremely suspicious of rationality and motives of everyone who pushes me to both abandon my principles and reason, and to fall into perceiving everything as a perfect mortal dichotomy with no escape. I’m neither that suicidal nor brutal. And it is definitely not about someone’s “love”, objective reality exists. Picking sides already got half-a-million people dead.

jnsaff2 3y ago
russians are very selective with their truth and which agreements they like keep for the day. Remember Budapest Memorandum? Remember the MRP pact with Hitler?
- foverzar 3y ago
  > russians are very selective with their truth > Remember the MRP pact with Hitler? I am always in awe by the bitter-sweet irony of this particular bit. Because Russians actually remember MRP, as well as the fact that it was a direct response to the Munich Agreement and Poland and Hungary each tearing itself a piece of Czechoslovakia (yes, with Hitler), while Europeans desperately try to forget the later and play the victim of the former, despite them literally doing the same thing first and opening this can of worms themselves. But of course its the Russians who are being selective about truth. I honestly don't understand where did people in the west even got the idea that Russians don't know about about MRP. > Remember Budapest Memorandum? The one that was thrown away by US and EU when they had actively supported the coup/revolution of 2014? Sorry, you were saying something about selectively honoring agreements? You know, you probably should try having a serious talk with real Russians instead of relying on some thirdparty to build you a strawman.

foverzar 3y ago

> Kim Jong Un has to be brutal because if he isn’t than he’ll lose the great game of palace politics and he and his family will be killed. Also, it's worth giving a good thought whether North Korea is in such a sorry state because of a bad persona or maybe it could have something to do with the fact that these people get international treatement equivalent to "isolate 'em barbarian animals". It shouldn't be surprising that a country forced into a Stone Age lives like it's a Stone Age, compared to e.g. Saudi Arabia that gets more liberal over time as life goes on relatively chill. Yet somehow it is.

Pigalowda 3y ago
DPRK was more developed and wealthier than the south at the end of the UN intervention. Also they’re clearly in the former soviet and PRC sphere of influence. Saying the DPRK was forced into the Stone Age by the west gives the west a lot of credit and power and virtually none to DPRK and its own self determination. You know, the ancient Greeks were pretty smart. At the temple of the oracle of Delphi there apparently was an inscription that read “know thyself”. I have a feeling that if you’re a citizen of the west you fundamentally do not know who you are or where you are.