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Both musk and Walter isaacson have denied that’s what happened. I don’t think there’s definitive proof, but the way you are telling the story makes out like ev

by zpeti 3y ago

Both musk and Walter isaacson have denied that’s what happened. I don’t think there’s definitive proof, but the way you are telling the story makes out like everyone agrees this is what happened, which is simply not true. (Starlink was never even enabled in that area according to musk and isaacson)

andsoitis 3y ago
Don’t let facts get in the way of bias!
- timeon 3y ago
  What facts?
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    It is worth setting your personal distaste of the man aside and try to be objective given the complexity of the issues but also knowing that media and our own bubbles will put a particular slant on things. The motives section on Wikipedia is especially interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Motives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainia... Look, I get it, trust me. When you have a strong hate or distaste for someone, it is easy to start seeing anything they do or not do through a cynical or negative lens. The world is more complicated than that. I try to be more curious and less judgy.
    - Pigalowda 3y ago
      He’s foisting himself into geopolitics and he’s going to be viewed through a lens of jingoism. Do you also try to find context and understand the facets of every geopolitical player? Do you figure the Russian federation needs to invade Ukraine because the western alliance against it has expanded along its border without buffer zones and competing client states? Kim Jong Un has to be brutal because if he isn’t than he’ll lose the great game of palace politics and he and his family will be killed. Israel has to destroy Hamas and Palestinian civilian collateral damage is inconsequential because 10 million people surrounded by hundreds of millions of people who despise them will end just like it did with Hadrian. Hamas has to fight Israel with brutal tactics because the land its people were on is being reclaimed and soon they will all have no place to go but as a diaspora. And after that they will disappear into cultural homogeneity of where they immigrated. You want to give Musk context? He’s a billionaire in the United States who has business ambitions in a major competing power (China). He can’t look too pro American so he supports Russia because his Chinese partners silently support Russia. Musk is deeply interested in himself and acquiring more wealth. He’s not a good guy he just wants to be the world’s first trillionaire outside of the Saudi royalty. In short, he sucks and he’s a greedy ass. Nuance? Context? Pick a side. You’re not a billionaire and you never will be. Musk doesn’t love you.
      - andsoitis 3y ago
        One of Musk’s Achilles heels is that he is principled almost to a fault (at least that’s what it seems like from the outside since I cannot read his mind or see into his heart). That principled view can get in the way of being practical. One of Starlink’s stated principles is that the network is not meant for war (see the motives section I link to above). Now it could be because of moral reasons or it could be for practical reasons (compliance with new sets of laws and regulations). Starlink has provided Ukraine with service but it is being financed by the US government. They have refused to do the same for Russia. Earlier in the Israel/Hamas war, Musk announced Starlink service for humanitarian aid (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink-provide-connectivity-gaza-through-aid-organizations-2023-10-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink...). I haven’t followed whether that actually happened and to what degree but 6 days ago they announced service for an Emirati-run hospital in the south. > Musk doesn’t love you I can see how my points can come across as I’m running to the defense of the guy. What’s actually happening is that I’m trying to seek something closer to the truth than what my gut reactions and news sources lead me to conclude.
        Pigalowda 3y ago
        Principled to a fault is not the phrase I would use for him. That’s maybe a person like Cato. SpaceX has defense contracts with the US DoD. It can’t do business with Russian MoD or it loses the US contracts. It’s not about principles it’s about money. I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. There is no truth in politics. Do you care about the Walton family and their truth? I’m guessing no. Musk has inserted himself into global attention and is clearly doing and saying what’s best for Musk. If the principle of self interest is what you’re talking about then yea, I guess that’s true. He’s so self interested it’s what made him and it’s what will undo him.
        andsoitis 3y ago
        > I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. I suppose both of us are trying to one another and others (why else debate) because we both think we have it correct. :-)
once_inc 3y ago
Starlink wasn't allowed to be enabled in that area due to US military dictates.

by zpeti 3y ago

andsoitis 3y ago

Don’t let facts get in the way of bias!

timeon 3y ago
What facts?
- andsoitis 3y ago
  It is worth setting your personal distaste of the man aside and try to be objective given the complexity of the issues but also knowing that media and our own bubbles will put a particular slant on things. The motives section on Wikipedia is especially interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Motives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainia... Look, I get it, trust me. When you have a strong hate or distaste for someone, it is easy to start seeing anything they do or not do through a cynical or negative lens. The world is more complicated than that. I try to be more curious and less judgy.
  - Pigalowda 3y ago
    He’s foisting himself into geopolitics and he’s going to be viewed through a lens of jingoism. Do you also try to find context and understand the facets of every geopolitical player? Do you figure the Russian federation needs to invade Ukraine because the western alliance against it has expanded along its border without buffer zones and competing client states? Kim Jong Un has to be brutal because if he isn’t than he’ll lose the great game of palace politics and he and his family will be killed. Israel has to destroy Hamas and Palestinian civilian collateral damage is inconsequential because 10 million people surrounded by hundreds of millions of people who despise them will end just like it did with Hadrian. Hamas has to fight Israel with brutal tactics because the land its people were on is being reclaimed and soon they will all have no place to go but as a diaspora. And after that they will disappear into cultural homogeneity of where they immigrated. You want to give Musk context? He’s a billionaire in the United States who has business ambitions in a major competing power (China). He can’t look too pro American so he supports Russia because his Chinese partners silently support Russia. Musk is deeply interested in himself and acquiring more wealth. He’s not a good guy he just wants to be the world’s first trillionaire outside of the Saudi royalty. In short, he sucks and he’s a greedy ass. Nuance? Context? Pick a side. You’re not a billionaire and you never will be. Musk doesn’t love you.
    - andsoitis 3y ago
      One of Musk’s Achilles heels is that he is principled almost to a fault (at least that’s what it seems like from the outside since I cannot read his mind or see into his heart). That principled view can get in the way of being practical. One of Starlink’s stated principles is that the network is not meant for war (see the motives section I link to above). Now it could be because of moral reasons or it could be for practical reasons (compliance with new sets of laws and regulations). Starlink has provided Ukraine with service but it is being financed by the US government. They have refused to do the same for Russia. Earlier in the Israel/Hamas war, Musk announced Starlink service for humanitarian aid (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink-provide-connectivity-gaza-through-aid-organizations-2023-10-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink...). I haven’t followed whether that actually happened and to what degree but 6 days ago they announced service for an Emirati-run hospital in the south. > Musk doesn’t love you I can see how my points can come across as I’m running to the defense of the guy. What’s actually happening is that I’m trying to seek something closer to the truth than what my gut reactions and news sources lead me to conclude.
      - Pigalowda 3y ago
        Principled to a fault is not the phrase I would use for him. That’s maybe a person like Cato. SpaceX has defense contracts with the US DoD. It can’t do business with Russian MoD or it loses the US contracts. It’s not about principles it’s about money. I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. There is no truth in politics. Do you care about the Walton family and their truth? I’m guessing no. Musk has inserted himself into global attention and is clearly doing and saying what’s best for Musk. If the principle of self interest is what you’re talking about then yea, I guess that’s true. He’s so self interested it’s what made him and it’s what will undo him.
        andsoitis 3y ago
        > I’m not sure I understand why you’re trying “to seek something closer to the truth” here. I suppose both of us are trying to one another and others (why else debate) because we both think we have it correct. :-)

once_inc 3y ago

Starlink wasn't allowed to be enabled in that area due to US military dictates.