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Is Nvidia RTX 4000 solid for training? Alternatively this card seems listed for around $1800 so at $180/month on Hetzner, it may be even cheaper to buy it, depe

Is Nvidia RTX 4000 solid for training? Alternatively this card seems listed for around $1800 so at $180/month on Hetzner, it may be even cheaper to buy it, depending on the expected usage.

Ayesh 3y ago
It's with ample RAM and the latest Intel CPU. Assuming the whole thing draws 100W, that's also including 72kWh of electricity.
- bluedino 3y ago
  I'm not sure what the exact 'rule' is here, but you wouldn't use a contraction in this sentence. It is, with ample RAM and the latest CPU.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
    From https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles/contractions-correctly https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles/contractions-correct... - Contractions can be used in any position in a sentence; however, homophone contractions such as "it's" and "they're" sound better when followed by another word or phrase. The reason is that the sounds of "its" and "it's" and "they're" and "their" are so similar that they can be confusing unless they are used with the context of an additional word.
    - zimpenfish 3y ago
      To be fair, the contracted version doesn't read nearly as nicely. Q. Is it good for training? A. It's with ample RAM and the latest Intel CPU. vs Q. Is it good for training? A. It is with ample RAM and the latest Intel CPU.
      - bluedino 3y ago
        I think they are agreeing with it not reading as nicely. But you still need the comma. Otherwise it sounds like: "It is with great pleasure..."
        zimpenfish 3y ago
        I don't think you necessarily need the comma but it would depend on the reader, I think. I didn't need the comma to read it correctly but I can see how you might mentally insert a pause between "it is" and "with" that makes it read weirdly. Probably better to reorganise it as "With ample ram [...], it is."
    - 0xcde4c3db 3y ago
      I think it's less to do with homophone confusion and more to do with usage patterns relating the contracted part to a phrase rather than a single word [1] [2]. By the logic of the homophone explanation, the following exchange should be much more acceptable than a sentence ending with "it's" or "they're", but to me it seems equally strange: "Are you waiting for someone?" "Yes, I'm." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZyZFa5qO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZyZFa5qO0 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic
Aerroon 3y ago
Why does this GPU cost so much? It seems to be like an RTX 3060 Ti/3070 with more VRAM and less power draw. Does that really justify the price tag?
- kookamamie 3y ago
  Because it's "enterprise".
- HPsquared 3y ago
  Like Apple, they use RAM for market segmentation.
- petercooper 3y ago
  NVIDIA's licensing. Note that the 3060/3070 is a "GeForce" whereas a 4000 is a "Quadro". Then look at the GeForce driver EULA: https://www.nvidia.com/content/DriverDownloads/licence.php?lang=us&type=GeForce https://www.nvidia.com/content/DriverDownloads/licence.php?l... > No Datacenter Deployment. The SOFTWARE is not licensed for datacenter deployment, except that blockchain processing in a datacenter is permitted. I could never figure out why they allowed blockchain processing, given how wasteful much of it was and how it impacted card supply for years, but there you go.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    Because they made a lot of money selling to miners at prices that maybe they couldn't ask to gamers?
    - 8organicbits 3y ago
      Wouldn't the GeForce license then say "no block chain" and a different NVIDIA brand (BlockForce?) would allow it, letting NVDA charge more for large scale mining? Otherwise it looks like gamers and miners are paying the same prices.
      - bbatsell 3y ago
rmbyrro 3y ago
You have to discount the price of a similar server without the GPU, tough. But even so, it's still quite expensive. I have the impression Nvidia charges more from data center customers. So, for cards available to retail consumers, it's not a fair cost comparison. With only 20GB, RTX 4000 has limited use... I was expecting they'd be offering something with at least 60GB at this point.
kookamamie 3y ago
No, not a great GPU for training. Consider something like A5000, A6000 or their Ada variants - if you want to go full "data-center", A40, L40, L40S are solid picks for small-scale training.
brucethemoose2 3y ago
Are you going to be training constantly? TBH renting a big GPU (A100 or better) and getting the run over with quick is usually best. VRAM is everything.

Is Nvidia RTX 4000 solid for training? Alternatively this card seems listed for around $1800 so at $180/month on Hetzner, it may be even cheaper to buy it, depending on the expected usage.

Ayesh 3y ago

It's with ample RAM and the latest Intel CPU. Assuming the whole thing draws 100W, that's also including 72kWh of electricity.

bluedino 3y ago
I'm not sure what the exact 'rule' is here, but you wouldn't use a contraction in this sentence. It is, with ample RAM and the latest CPU.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
  From https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles/contractions-correctly https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles/contractions-correct... - Contractions can be used in any position in a sentence; however, homophone contractions such as "it's" and "they're" sound better when followed by another word or phrase. The reason is that the sounds of "its" and "it's" and "they're" and "their" are so similar that they can be confusing unless they are used with the context of an additional word.
  - zimpenfish 3y ago
    To be fair, the contracted version doesn't read nearly as nicely. Q. Is it good for training? A. It's with ample RAM and the latest Intel CPU. vs Q. Is it good for training? A. It is with ample RAM and the latest Intel CPU.
    - bluedino 3y ago
      I think they are agreeing with it not reading as nicely. But you still need the comma. Otherwise it sounds like: "It is with great pleasure..."
      - zimpenfish 3y ago
        I don't think you necessarily need the comma but it would depend on the reader, I think. I didn't need the comma to read it correctly but I can see how you might mentally insert a pause between "it is" and "with" that makes it read weirdly. Probably better to reorganise it as "With ample ram [...], it is."
  - 0xcde4c3db 3y ago
    I think it's less to do with homophone confusion and more to do with usage patterns relating the contracted part to a phrase rather than a single word [1] [2]. By the logic of the homophone explanation, the following exchange should be much more acceptable than a sentence ending with "it's" or "they're", but to me it seems equally strange: "Are you waiting for someone?" "Yes, I'm." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZyZFa5qO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZyZFa5qO0 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic

Aerroon 3y ago

Why does this GPU cost so much? It seems to be like an RTX 3060 Ti/3070 with more VRAM and less power draw. Does that really justify the price tag?

kookamamie 3y ago
Because it's "enterprise".
HPsquared 3y ago
Like Apple, they use RAM for market segmentation.
petercooper 3y ago
NVIDIA's licensing. Note that the 3060/3070 is a "GeForce" whereas a 4000 is a "Quadro". Then look at the GeForce driver EULA: https://www.nvidia.com/content/DriverDownloads/licence.php?lang=us&type=GeForce https://www.nvidia.com/content/DriverDownloads/licence.php?l... > No Datacenter Deployment. The SOFTWARE is not licensed for datacenter deployment, except that blockchain processing in a datacenter is permitted. I could never figure out why they allowed blockchain processing, given how wasteful much of it was and how it impacted card supply for years, but there you go.
- pmontra 3y ago
  Because they made a lot of money selling to miners at prices that maybe they couldn't ask to gamers?
  - 8organicbits 3y ago
    Wouldn't the GeForce license then say "no block chain" and a different NVIDIA brand (BlockForce?) would allow it, letting NVDA charge more for large scale mining? Otherwise it looks like gamers and miners are paying the same prices.
    - bbatsell 3y ago

rmbyrro 3y ago

You have to discount the price of a similar server without the GPU, tough. But even so, it's still quite expensive. I have the impression Nvidia charges more from data center customers. So, for cards available to retail consumers, it's not a fair cost comparison. With only 20GB, RTX 4000 has limited use... I was expecting they'd be offering something with at least 60GB at this point.

kookamamie 3y ago

No, not a great GPU for training. Consider something like A5000, A6000 or their Ada variants - if you want to go full "data-center", A40, L40, L40S are solid picks for small-scale training.

brucethemoose2 3y ago

Are you going to be training constantly? TBH renting a big GPU (A100 or better) and getting the run over with quick is usually best. VRAM is everything.