3 ms·

Most people in most countries don't see the value in tax - if you read any forum, people want to pay less tax and have better public services, which isn't reall

Most people in most countries don't see the value in tax - if you read any forum, people want to pay less tax and have better public services, which isn't really very achievable. Some people would prefer to follow a US kind of model of cuts to public services and low tax. Other people (including me) would rather be taxed higher in a more European model and have well-funded public services. The current UK government seems to have found a fourth option - high taxes and dreadful public services.

dukeyukey 3y ago
I wouldn't say "high" taxes. People like to say we've got European taxes and American services, but the UK tax burden is significantly lower than places like France, Sweden, and Germany. It's harder to compare services cos I've not lived anywhere else long enough to require public services.
- chimprich 3y ago
  I agree generally, though it's not simple to compare countries. It's easier to compare UK history. It seems clear that we're paying more tax for significantly worse services compared to a decade ago.
- tharmas 3y ago
  Fun fact: if you disaggregate London GDP from the UK GDP, the rest of the UK is as poor as the state of Mississippi.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    To be fair so does France. Worse, actually. If you melon-scoop the most productive 15% of the population out of any country the productivity of the rest goes down quite a bit.
c0wb0yc0d3r 3y ago
I've always wondered if there's a way to more efficiently tax more aspects of the "business world." By "business world" I mean business operations and interactions between businesses. I realize that to some extent these taxes would ultimately be passed onto consumers. However, I think there is an upper limit to which that can happen. For example, I feel like there can be an added or increased tax on mergers and acquisitions. I'm thinking more "sales tax." Another thought I've had is implementing a tax on advertisement viewership. I don't really know how that'd be implemented so I haven't put much thought into it.
- tharmas 3y ago
  Just TAX the rent-seekers and the speculators. Tax the $&%# out of them. Lower sales taxes to zero accept on luxury goods and a few other things like cigarettes, that sort of thing.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> The current UK government seems to have found a fourth option - high taxes and dreadful public services. This is an attempt to kill the existing comprehensive services like NHS. The Koch Brothers Model -- slash funding, make something shitty, complain how it's shitty, use that to justify further slashing, repeat until you can privatize
Baguette5242 3y ago
I reassure you, it's pretty much the case everywhere. I believe that stellar public services are just a myth that doesn't exists (at least in post 90's western Europe), despite the amount of money pored into it. The problem is not coming from the taxes or the public services, but from the bureaucracy and the insane amount of norms and regulations that are at best questionable, and plummeting all kind of efficiency. I am from France, and it is a catastrophe to see the amount of administrative bullshit public agents have to go through just to issue a simple document, and I thought it was the absolute worst... till I moved to Germany and I realized it was even worse, thanks god, it's only the spearhead of Western Europe, what wrong could happen... This combined with the overall aging population which is preventing any form of further digitization or drastic changes, the low-wages in the public sector which are far from attracting the sharpest knifes in the kitchen drawer; you have a recipe for nightmare, inefficiency and down the line, hurt economy.
- chimprich 3y ago
  You might find it hard to believe, but it's significantly worse in the UK. We have significantly fewer doctors, nurses, hospital beds per capita, and pay less into healthcare. Long term sick unable to work numbers have increased by a third in the last ~3 years: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/17/record-long-term-sickness-bodes-ill-for-uk-economic-growth https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/17/record-long... That's surely not even cost-effective in the short term. It would be cheaper to pay to get them back working again. The NHS is quite efficient I think compared to comparable health systems but it's massively under-resourced. So it's all relative. It might not be "stellar" from your perspective, but France and Germany have probably among the best health systems in the world. The UK's used to be quite good only a few years ago.

dukeyukey 3y ago

I wouldn't say "high" taxes. People like to say we've got European taxes and American services, but the UK tax burden is significantly lower than places like France, Sweden, and Germany. It's harder to compare services cos I've not lived anywhere else long enough to require public services.

chimprich 3y ago
I agree generally, though it's not simple to compare countries. It's easier to compare UK history. It seems clear that we're paying more tax for significantly worse services compared to a decade ago.
tharmas 3y ago
Fun fact: if you disaggregate London GDP from the UK GDP, the rest of the UK is as poor as the state of Mississippi.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  To be fair so does France. Worse, actually. If you melon-scoop the most productive 15% of the population out of any country the productivity of the rest goes down quite a bit.

c0wb0yc0d3r 3y ago

I've always wondered if there's a way to more efficiently tax more aspects of the "business world." By "business world" I mean business operations and interactions between businesses. I realize that to some extent these taxes would ultimately be passed onto consumers. However, I think there is an upper limit to which that can happen. For example, I feel like there can be an added or increased tax on mergers and acquisitions. I'm thinking more "sales tax." Another thought I've had is implementing a tax on advertisement viewership. I don't really know how that'd be implemented so I haven't put much thought into it.

tharmas 3y ago
Just TAX the rent-seekers and the speculators. Tax the $&%# out of them. Lower sales taxes to zero accept on luxury goods and a few other things like cigarettes, that sort of thing.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

> The current UK government seems to have found a fourth option - high taxes and dreadful public services. This is an attempt to kill the existing comprehensive services like NHS. The Koch Brothers Model -- slash funding, make something shitty, complain how it's shitty, use that to justify further slashing, repeat until you can privatize

Baguette5242 3y ago

I reassure you, it's pretty much the case everywhere. I believe that stellar public services are just a myth that doesn't exists (at least in post 90's western Europe), despite the amount of money pored into it. The problem is not coming from the taxes or the public services, but from the bureaucracy and the insane amount of norms and regulations that are at best questionable, and plummeting all kind of efficiency. I am from France, and it is a catastrophe to see the amount of administrative bullshit public agents have to go through just to issue a simple document, and I thought it was the absolute worst... till I moved to Germany and I realized it was even worse, thanks god, it's only the spearhead of Western Europe, what wrong could happen... This combined with the overall aging population which is preventing any form of further digitization or drastic changes, the low-wages in the public sector which are far from attracting the sharpest knifes in the kitchen drawer; you have a recipe for nightmare, inefficiency and down the line, hurt economy.

chimprich 3y ago
You might find it hard to believe, but it's significantly worse in the UK. We have significantly fewer doctors, nurses, hospital beds per capita, and pay less into healthcare. Long term sick unable to work numbers have increased by a third in the last ~3 years: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/17/record-long-term-sickness-bodes-ill-for-uk-economic-growth https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/17/record-long... That's surely not even cost-effective in the short term. It would be cheaper to pay to get them back working again. The NHS is quite efficient I think compared to comparable health systems but it's massively under-resourced. So it's all relative. It might not be "stellar" from your perspective, but France and Germany have probably among the best health systems in the world. The UK's used to be quite good only a few years ago.