3 ms·

Without sounding too much like a conspiracy theorist, the UK has always seemed to me like a fairly 'sewn up' place with a lot of sheep and a few wolves. If you

Without sounding too much like a conspiracy theorist, the UK has always seemed to me like a fairly 'sewn up' place with a lot of sheep and a few wolves. If you show too much enthusiasm for not being a sheep you're gently reminded that the exit is always open: before it was the colonies (either by choice or by transportation!) today it's Australia/NZ or America - the door is always open and it's trivial to get into either one of those countries (by marriage) Thatcher fought the system and tried to free people (please don't laugh) and set a lot of people on an upward trajectory, being able to own their first home which is key to building wealth and a hugely powerful black PR network set about demonising her the moment she left office. She's now utterly reviled despite winning a gigantic share of the vote on several occasions and doing a huge amount to set the working classes free of rentiers. The 'public housing selloff' in the UK wouldn't have been a scandal if new public housing had been built but the idea of building that stuff just to sell it to the 'proles' really didn't go over well with those who hold the purse strings so they basically vetoed any more ever being built from that point on. Now it's even worse, many new housing developments are shared ownership, even with cash you can't buy outright, you have to accept owning only a share and paying rent forever. Also it's virtually impossible to build your own house or even have anything constructed that has any sort of interesting architecture. The difference between UK small towns and French/German small towns is ludicrous - in Europe the architecture has long since adapted to modern living patterns and styles, in the UK the houses still need to be built with a certain 'look' because 'that's the UK look' and it's so tedious. Vested interests in the UK have simply been there too long to accept any challenge to their power. They just point to the door.

short_sells_poo 3y ago
I suspect there's at least a grain of truth to what you write. The housing stock (even newly built) in the UK is atrocious. The quality is really poor, unless you pay a massive premium. And I agree with you: it all looks the same dreary brown. Everything has to be identical baby diarrhea brown and the same design. And somehow nobody seems to be keen to demolish and replace the terrible 60s-70s houses either. Why is that? It costs too much? Or someone, somewhere actually enforces that the design must remain as it is? I have yet to see a new development where I can say: oh this looks nice and positive. I don't know who to blame for this, whether it's some funky conservation societies who wield way too much power, or whether it is self inflicted dreariness that people somehow like.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  > oh this looks nice and positive There's no positivity left. All the positive people, as I said, were encouraged to leave. What's left is hugely corrupt local councils (that control planning) all staffed by the most bitter venal types you've ever met who all have the same mentality - 'I can't fix it myself but if I let someone else fix it for me that means they're better than me, and I can't accept that' so they choose to rule over ruins than step aside. Usually combined with lots of racism and alcoholism. It all shows through in the television. The cynicism and sarcasm that pervades British television is so telling once you see it from a distance. > whether it is self inflicted dreariness that people somehow like They do seem to like it, unfortunately.
dukeyukey 3y ago
> shared ownership... you have to accept owning only a share and paying rent forever. I don't think that's true. I have friends who did shared ownership, and pretty universally you can ratchet up how much you own after the first year (assuming you can get the mortgage for it). So just, like, buy the rest and you won't pay rent.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  > So just, like, buy the rest That's a lovely theory but shared ownership allows prices to rise astronomically because it allows what's basically double-mortgaging - you get a mortgage on the part you own and pay rent on the rest (which of course is you paying the developer's loan) which is accepted because the risk is shared between the developer and the mortgage issuer, who of course have an 'arrangement' because only some banks will issue mortgages to some shared ownership properties - there's an 'approved lender' list for each development. So 'just buy the rest' becomes almost comically impossible, which is the idea. It's intrinsically gross. I honestly don't think it should be allowed, it's masking a problem which is insane real estate values which have no tie to reality.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    But it isn't impossible? A few friends already have. One did so in order to sell to move, since it makes selling much easier. Genuinely, where did you get that idea?
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      Do these friends of yours have, you know, regular people salaries or 90th percentile people salaries?
      - dukeyukey 3y ago
        They're software engineers (big surprise there), so generally up towards the 10% or so. But you said "almost comically impossible", and I really think that's overstating it.

short_sells_poo 3y ago

I suspect there's at least a grain of truth to what you write. The housing stock (even newly built) in the UK is atrocious. The quality is really poor, unless you pay a massive premium. And I agree with you: it all looks the same dreary brown. Everything has to be identical baby diarrhea brown and the same design. And somehow nobody seems to be keen to demolish and replace the terrible 60s-70s houses either. Why is that? It costs too much? Or someone, somewhere actually enforces that the design must remain as it is? I have yet to see a new development where I can say: oh this looks nice and positive. I don't know who to blame for this, whether it's some funky conservation societies who wield way too much power, or whether it is self inflicted dreariness that people somehow like.

15457345234 3y ago
> oh this looks nice and positive There's no positivity left. All the positive people, as I said, were encouraged to leave. What's left is hugely corrupt local councils (that control planning) all staffed by the most bitter venal types you've ever met who all have the same mentality - 'I can't fix it myself but if I let someone else fix it for me that means they're better than me, and I can't accept that' so they choose to rule over ruins than step aside. Usually combined with lots of racism and alcoholism. It all shows through in the television. The cynicism and sarcasm that pervades British television is so telling once you see it from a distance. > whether it is self inflicted dreariness that people somehow like They do seem to like it, unfortunately.

dukeyukey 3y ago

> shared ownership... you have to accept owning only a share and paying rent forever. I don't think that's true. I have friends who did shared ownership, and pretty universally you can ratchet up how much you own after the first year (assuming you can get the mortgage for it). So just, like, buy the rest and you won't pay rent.

15457345234 3y ago
> So just, like, buy the rest That's a lovely theory but shared ownership allows prices to rise astronomically because it allows what's basically double-mortgaging - you get a mortgage on the part you own and pay rent on the rest (which of course is you paying the developer's loan) which is accepted because the risk is shared between the developer and the mortgage issuer, who of course have an 'arrangement' because only some banks will issue mortgages to some shared ownership properties - there's an 'approved lender' list for each development. So 'just buy the rest' becomes almost comically impossible, which is the idea. It's intrinsically gross. I honestly don't think it should be allowed, it's masking a problem which is insane real estate values which have no tie to reality.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  But it isn't impossible? A few friends already have. One did so in order to sell to move, since it makes selling much easier. Genuinely, where did you get that idea?
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    Do these friends of yours have, you know, regular people salaries or 90th percentile people salaries?
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      They're software engineers (big surprise there), so generally up towards the 10% or so. But you said "almost comically impossible", and I really think that's overstating it.