5 ms·

The moment the hack is public Sony will release an update to block it. And so the game of cat and mouse continues.

jimmyl02 3y ago
this will always be true of jailbreaks as they fundamentally break the security of the device. this means that it can be used for cool things like shown in the article but it could also be used maliciously by an attacker to completely take over the device which the manufacturer should definitely patch.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  these exploits are never closed for the security of their users, though the changelogs might often claim that’s the case. It’s always about licensing costs for the manufacturer. Every game or application released for consoles (and phones alike) have to pay a licensing fee to the maintainers of that platform to publish on that platform. If you can jailbreak the device then you can publish software to that device without paying Sony, Apple or whoever else. The security aspect is just a convenient side effect from locking people in. But if it was only security that these manufacturers were concerned about then they’d have found a way to allow people to tinker with their hardware without needing to crack any security mechanisms in the first place. You can see this concern for licensing being a big thing in consoles as early as the Gameboy and MegaDrive (Genesis). And back then security wasn’t even a concern.
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  After the last update to my expensive DSLR broke third-party batteries for no reason beyond pettiness and greed, at this point I trust random hackers more than I trust Sony. *the battery ruining was not mentioned in the changelog for the update.
- extraduder_ire 3y ago
  It's a shame that such exploits are needed in the first place, when allowing developer mode to be toggled like a normal android device (ideally easier than on an xbox/quest) would be enough for most of these cool things. It's also a strangely perverse incentive to stay on an exploitable firmware if you want to hack your own hardware.
jsheard 3y ago
Depends on the nature of the jailbreak, some of them are unpatchable if they attack the system early enough in the boot flow. Those are much less common than they used to be though, the Switch is obviously a notable example of a permanent jailbreak but it's been some time since Sony or Microsoft made a blunder like that. OTOH who knows how much of the Portal was actually designed by Sony, since it's running Android rather than SIEs usual FreeBSD it might have been outsourced or derived from some generic ODM design.
doubled112 3y ago
I did enjoy this cat and mouse game when I got my first PSP. That was quite a few years ago.
- scheeseman486 3y ago
  That wasn't so much a cat and mouse game, rather a bunch of hackers playing keep away with Sony's hat. The PSP's security was "defeated" literally from day one since the v1 firmware launched unsigned executables, then after that there was exploit after exploit, then the whole pandora battery thing and finally the host keys got leaked and it was game over. I bought my PSP at launch and it spent the vast majority of it's lifespan with some kind of custom firmware installed.
  - alias_neo 3y ago
    PSP was the golden age for me. I started university the year it launched in the UK but I already had a Japanese import PSP1000 I'd bought the year before. Studying CSEE a few friends and I were all over the hacking and homebrew and wrote a few apps/tools ourselves. We spent all of the boring lectures gaming on our PSPs, modifying them, dumping and swapping games etc. Later we got Compaq iPaQs and modified those, installed Linux etc and dreamed of a Linux phone, then came the first iPhone, I imported one of those the year before it released here (UK) and everyone who saw it in the EE department were amazed. Then of course came Android, the dream came true. Fast forward over a decade and Google has well and truly put a bolt through the head of that dream. It was a different time in my life, but I definitely feel it's (tech/gadgets) all a lot less interesting these days.
coretx 3y ago
That might not be true since there is no need for Sony code < their means of control > if you can replace it with AOSP & the Android remote play client...
solardev 3y ago
It's stupid that in 2024, Sony is still like this :( Meanwhile Microsoft has gone the other direction, opening up many Xbox games for crossplay/cross-save with Windows, partnering with GeForce Now to offer Game Pass games there (in addition to their own xCloud, which is total crap by comparison because it streams from actual Xbox consoles), and they don't care where you end up streaming it to (including web browsers).
- goosedragons 3y ago
  Microsoft designed the Xbox in such a way to be very resistant to exploits. I'd have no doubt if there was a viable one in the wild they could patch, they would. They also only agreed to put their games on GeForce Now to be able to buy Activision. And Windows is still a Microsoft platform. They don't benefit as much from game sales but they do still benefit overall in keeping gamers there instead of migrating to PS5 or Linux.
  - solardev 3y ago
    All of the above is true, but the end effect is still that it's easier to crossplay Microsoft stuff than Sony's or Nintendo's. Do I wish everything were released on all platforms natively? Sure, but that's not my call. Nintendo is super resistant to releasing its stuff on other platforms. Sony is getting a bit better about that (like Horizons and Helldivers coming out on PC), but they still use terrible anti-cheats, don't allow GFN, etc. Annoying =/ As a gamer stuck on a Mac, I find GamePass & Steam + GeForce Now offers a better experience than Crossover/Whisky games. It's even better than native Apple Silicon ports (like BG3 or Stray) because the GFN GPUs are so much more powerful, and can use the latest DLSS. My M2 Max doesn't come close. Proton is pretty amazing (for the few days I had a Steam Deck), but AFAIK it doesn't work on Mac? If it ever gets ported, or if Asahi ever matures enough, I'd love to be able to use that to play other Windows games not on the streaming services.
- hx8 3y ago
  In 2023 I looked into these options. The Game Pass games are not compatible with proton and they did not support streaming to Firefox running on Linux. It wasn't exactly an open ecosystem.

this will always be true of jailbreaks as they fundamentally break the security of the device. this means that it can be used for cool things like shown in the article but it could also be used maliciously by an attacker to completely take over the device which the manufacturer should definitely patch.

hnlmorg 3y ago
these exploits are never closed for the security of their users, though the changelogs might often claim that’s the case. It’s always about licensing costs for the manufacturer. Every game or application released for consoles (and phones alike) have to pay a licensing fee to the maintainers of that platform to publish on that platform. If you can jailbreak the device then you can publish software to that device without paying Sony, Apple or whoever else. The security aspect is just a convenient side effect from locking people in. But if it was only security that these manufacturers were concerned about then they’d have found a way to allow people to tinker with their hardware without needing to crack any security mechanisms in the first place. You can see this concern for licensing being a big thing in consoles as early as the Gameboy and MegaDrive (Genesis). And back then security wasn’t even a concern.
brokenmachine 3y ago
After the last update to my expensive DSLR broke third-party batteries for no reason beyond pettiness and greed, at this point I trust random hackers more than I trust Sony. *the battery ruining was not mentioned in the changelog for the update.
extraduder_ire 3y ago
It's a shame that such exploits are needed in the first place, when allowing developer mode to be toggled like a normal android device (ideally easier than on an xbox/quest) would be enough for most of these cool things. It's also a strangely perverse incentive to stay on an exploitable firmware if you want to hack your own hardware.

jsheard 3y ago

Depends on the nature of the jailbreak, some of them are unpatchable if they attack the system early enough in the boot flow. Those are much less common than they used to be though, the Switch is obviously a notable example of a permanent jailbreak but it's been some time since Sony or Microsoft made a blunder like that. OTOH who knows how much of the Portal was actually designed by Sony, since it's running Android rather than SIEs usual FreeBSD it might have been outsourced or derived from some generic ODM design.

doubled112 3y ago

I did enjoy this cat and mouse game when I got my first PSP. That was quite a few years ago.

scheeseman486 3y ago
That wasn't so much a cat and mouse game, rather a bunch of hackers playing keep away with Sony's hat. The PSP's security was "defeated" literally from day one since the v1 firmware launched unsigned executables, then after that there was exploit after exploit, then the whole pandora battery thing and finally the host keys got leaked and it was game over. I bought my PSP at launch and it spent the vast majority of it's lifespan with some kind of custom firmware installed.
- alias_neo 3y ago
  PSP was the golden age for me. I started university the year it launched in the UK but I already had a Japanese import PSP1000 I'd bought the year before. Studying CSEE a few friends and I were all over the hacking and homebrew and wrote a few apps/tools ourselves. We spent all of the boring lectures gaming on our PSPs, modifying them, dumping and swapping games etc. Later we got Compaq iPaQs and modified those, installed Linux etc and dreamed of a Linux phone, then came the first iPhone, I imported one of those the year before it released here (UK) and everyone who saw it in the EE department were amazed. Then of course came Android, the dream came true. Fast forward over a decade and Google has well and truly put a bolt through the head of that dream. It was a different time in my life, but I definitely feel it's (tech/gadgets) all a lot less interesting these days.

coretx 3y ago

That might not be true since there is no need for Sony code < their means of control > if you can replace it with AOSP & the Android remote play client...

solardev 3y ago

It's stupid that in 2024, Sony is still like this :( Meanwhile Microsoft has gone the other direction, opening up many Xbox games for crossplay/cross-save with Windows, partnering with GeForce Now to offer Game Pass games there (in addition to their own xCloud, which is total crap by comparison because it streams from actual Xbox consoles), and they don't care where you end up streaming it to (including web browsers).

goosedragons 3y ago
Microsoft designed the Xbox in such a way to be very resistant to exploits. I'd have no doubt if there was a viable one in the wild they could patch, they would. They also only agreed to put their games on GeForce Now to be able to buy Activision. And Windows is still a Microsoft platform. They don't benefit as much from game sales but they do still benefit overall in keeping gamers there instead of migrating to PS5 or Linux.
- solardev 3y ago
  All of the above is true, but the end effect is still that it's easier to crossplay Microsoft stuff than Sony's or Nintendo's. Do I wish everything were released on all platforms natively? Sure, but that's not my call. Nintendo is super resistant to releasing its stuff on other platforms. Sony is getting a bit better about that (like Horizons and Helldivers coming out on PC), but they still use terrible anti-cheats, don't allow GFN, etc. Annoying =/ As a gamer stuck on a Mac, I find GamePass & Steam + GeForce Now offers a better experience than Crossover/Whisky games. It's even better than native Apple Silicon ports (like BG3 or Stray) because the GFN GPUs are so much more powerful, and can use the latest DLSS. My M2 Max doesn't come close. Proton is pretty amazing (for the few days I had a Steam Deck), but AFAIK it doesn't work on Mac? If it ever gets ported, or if Asahi ever matures enough, I'd love to be able to use that to play other Windows games not on the streaming services.
hx8 3y ago
In 2023 I looked into these options. The Game Pass games are not compatible with proton and they did not support streaming to Firefox running on Linux. It wasn't exactly an open ecosystem.