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I agree that they were in a stronger political position before the war. Even if they win they probably lose, just by having exposed so much about their military
by jemmyw 3y ago
I agree that they were in a stronger political position before the war. Even if they win they probably lose, just by having exposed so much about their military strength, way of operating, internal politics etc. I would say they've ceded global influence to China.
I don't see any of the comments discussing the reason I think they felt the need to do this, even though my opinion is not unique it does seem minority. It was only partially about NATO expansion into Ukraine, and not the defence side of that, it was more about EU membership, and it was even more about Ukrainian politics and society. Ukraine has slowly been moving from a corrupt Russian like state to more resemble an eastern European EU member. Long way to go but the direction was clear from 2014 when Russia first rumbled, and it has accelerated since.
With that in mind, Ukraine presents a clear threat to Putin's regime. The potential of Russians seeing the country next door, of similar people with shared heritage and lots of social cross over, transition to a less corrupt, more democratic, western influenced nation. And if Ukraine had managed to join the EU there would have been a flood of investment, which while bringing its own problems I'm sure, would have improved the lives of Ukrainians. A demonstration of "throw out your corrupt leaders and see what you can have".
So the war is to nullify that, and even if it did not pan out in the way Putin had hoped, it's still succeeded in pushing away that particular threat. Even if the west now gives proper support to Ukraine defence, and follows it up with a rebuild, the war has split Ukrainian and Russian social linkage.
- rainworld 3y agohttps://youtu.be/eQ4e1A-LZEA https://youtu.be/eQ4e1A-LZEA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Directorate_of_Intelligence_(Ukraine)#/media/File:Emblem_of_the_Defence_Intelligence_of_Ukraine.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Directorate_of_Intelligen... A bloody eighty-year+ history of using Ukrainian nationalism against the Soviet Union/Russia and yet people waffle about “freedom”, “democracy”—the works. I still dont understand Step 1: Don’t get high on your own supply. Anyone’s supply.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoYou say that, but then you have the posting history that bears more than a little resemblance to a standard Russian troll.
- rainworld 3y agoUkraine would of course be toast without arms and intelligence from the West, but neither have any interest in starting or perpetuating the war. I’m just here to correct people who are wrong. Z-enjoyers like to quip that the only true friend the Ukrainian people have is Putin’s soft heart. The good news for everyone but Putin is that the West has enough to send to give Ukropia the 1945 ending, fulfilling the self-fulfilling prophecy. Nothing I can do to change that. Russia's folly is convenient for the West though. I’m positive that things are going to get quite inconvenient in the EU then. The US, too, God willing. What goes around comes around, and not necessarily from the same direction. Believe it or not, not everyone enjoys life under these regimes as much as you seem to do.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoYes that is indeed the typical output of a Russian troll. Of course that doesn't mean you are one. The strangest thing about Russian propaganda is that seemingly rational people spontaneously parrot it, even though it doesn't make much sense.
- rainworld 3y agoGotta hand it to the Anglos, what a smashing success the Russian Bots psyop has been. Anyway, you rationally bought the ticket, hope you’ll rationally enjoy the ride. Hope things never stop making sense to you.