5 ms·

> As I have already written, such a display would have been too expensive for a desktop computer with an 8-bit CPU. They were subsidized to some extent, but th

> As I have already written, such a display would have been too expensive for a desktop computer with an 8-bit CPU. They were subsidized to some extent, but they were nonetheless cranked out by the hundreds. > Vector displays are possible only where there is a drawing spot that can be moved in any programmable direction, i.e. only on CRTs or mechanical plotters. They are not possible with plasma displays. I'm sorry, you are simply wrong here. The Plato display did have vector graphics. Your own Wikipedia citation disagrees with you: "The display was a 512×512 bitmap, with both character and vector plotting done by hardwired logic. It included fast vector line drawing capability, and ran at 1260 baud, rendering 60 lines or 180 characters per second."

ahazred8ta 3y ago
A vector display is a non-pixel-based screen like a radar screen or oscilloscope. I used a vector computer terminal in 1979. I also used a Plato, which did have vector graphics but was not a vector display.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  No, a vector display is one that takes vectors as input and displays them. What happens inside the display is irrelevant. PLATO used this type of display because it was running over very slow dialup modems, and vectors, while having their limitations, are much more compact than rasters. Example: suppose you want to draw a line on the 512x512 PLATO display. With a raster method, you have to send 512x512x(number of brightness levels) down the pipe. With a vector display, you only have to send DRAW(X1,Y1,X2,Y2) or (equivalently) DRAW(X,Y,length, angle) 5 numbers versus hundreds of thousands. The PLATO display had direct hardware support for line-drawing commands. That made it a vector display.
  - rep_lodsb 3y ago
    A vector display is not the same thing as a vector format for storing/transmitting graphics. On a raster display (what we all have today), a line must be made up of discrete pixels, whereas on a vector display, there is an analog integrator that moves the X/Y deflection smoothly between the endpoints. This might not matter if you have a high resolution, multiple brightness levels, and a CPU/GPU powerful enough to do antialiasing, but for 512x512x1bpp the pixels making up each line will be very visible as "stairsteps".
  - ahazred8ta 3y ago
    Vector. Monitors. Are. Analog. You are thinking of digital vector GRAPHICS displays with hardware line-drawing support. Analog vector monitors and digital vector graphics raster displays are two different things. Vector monitors can draw nonpixellated curved lines as well as straight lines. Vector monitors can draw lines at any angle without staircasing. If a screen has pixels, it is not a vector monitor. The 1970s Asteroids arcade game had an analog vector monitor without pixels. Ditto the PDP-1 Spacewar and PDP-11 Lunar Lander, both of which I saw in the 70s. Ditto the Star Wars arcade game. Some vector monitors had rapid-fade phosphors and had to be constantly redrawn, others were bistable storage tubes that retained an image for several minutes without being redrawn. The Plato terminal did not have an analog vector monitor. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_monitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_monitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(1983_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(1983_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlezone_(1980_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlezone_(1980_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-view_bistable_storage_tube https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-view_bistable_storage...
rep_lodsb 3y ago
>"The display was a 512×512 bitmap, with both character and vector plotting done by hardwired logic. It included fast vector line drawing capability, and ran at 1260 baud, rendering 60 lines or 180 characters per second." Sounds more like it has Bresenham's algorithm implemented in hardware. It would still plot individual pixels on a 512x512 grid, which is different from how an actual vector display draws lines.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  Maybe we can agree to disagree about the terminology here. To me if it takes vector inputs and displays them, it doesn't matter if it's pixels on a grid or tiny elves holding up colored signs. It's a vector display. In any case, the PLATO display absolutely did not use "segments", as the OP claimed that it must have. He also claimed that bit-mapped plasma displays "didn't exist at the time".

ahazred8ta 3y ago

A vector display is a non-pixel-based screen like a radar screen or oscilloscope. I used a vector computer terminal in 1979. I also used a Plato, which did have vector graphics but was not a vector display.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
No, a vector display is one that takes vectors as input and displays them. What happens inside the display is irrelevant. PLATO used this type of display because it was running over very slow dialup modems, and vectors, while having their limitations, are much more compact than rasters. Example: suppose you want to draw a line on the 512x512 PLATO display. With a raster method, you have to send 512x512x(number of brightness levels) down the pipe. With a vector display, you only have to send DRAW(X1,Y1,X2,Y2) or (equivalently) DRAW(X,Y,length, angle) 5 numbers versus hundreds of thousands. The PLATO display had direct hardware support for line-drawing commands. That made it a vector display.
- rep_lodsb 3y ago
  A vector display is not the same thing as a vector format for storing/transmitting graphics. On a raster display (what we all have today), a line must be made up of discrete pixels, whereas on a vector display, there is an analog integrator that moves the X/Y deflection smoothly between the endpoints. This might not matter if you have a high resolution, multiple brightness levels, and a CPU/GPU powerful enough to do antialiasing, but for 512x512x1bpp the pixels making up each line will be very visible as "stairsteps".
- ahazred8ta 3y ago
  Vector. Monitors. Are. Analog. You are thinking of digital vector GRAPHICS displays with hardware line-drawing support. Analog vector monitors and digital vector graphics raster displays are two different things. Vector monitors can draw nonpixellated curved lines as well as straight lines. Vector monitors can draw lines at any angle without staircasing. If a screen has pixels, it is not a vector monitor. The 1970s Asteroids arcade game had an analog vector monitor without pixels. Ditto the PDP-1 Spacewar and PDP-11 Lunar Lander, both of which I saw in the 70s. Ditto the Star Wars arcade game. Some vector monitors had rapid-fade phosphors and had to be constantly redrawn, others were bistable storage tubes that retained an image for several minutes without being redrawn. The Plato terminal did not have an analog vector monitor. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_monitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_monitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(1983_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(1983_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlezone_(1980_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlezone_(1980_video_game) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-view_bistable_storage_tube https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-view_bistable_storage...

rep_lodsb 3y ago

>"The display was a 512×512 bitmap, with both character and vector plotting done by hardwired logic. It included fast vector line drawing capability, and ran at 1260 baud, rendering 60 lines or 180 characters per second." Sounds more like it has Bresenham's algorithm implemented in hardware. It would still plot individual pixels on a 512x512 grid, which is different from how an actual vector display draws lines.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
Maybe we can agree to disagree about the terminology here. To me if it takes vector inputs and displays them, it doesn't matter if it's pixels on a grid or tiny elves holding up colored signs. It's a vector display. In any case, the PLATO display absolutely did not use "segments", as the OP claimed that it must have. He also claimed that bit-mapped plasma displays "didn't exist at the time".