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I think the demo section needs work. Clicking a "tab" to change the example code to Greeting, or anything else adds a history event but doesn't update the url.

I think the demo section needs work. Clicking a "tab" to change the example code to Greeting, or anything else adds a history event but doesn't update the url. I probably would have done the exact opposite in both aspects. Use replace to prevent extra navigation entries, but still update the url for bookmarking etc. For something that claims to "just be html", it seems to be breaking some fundamental rules of the web/UX. Whether it's a simple mistake or not and easy to fix, it does not inspire confidence in the framework.

phinnaeus 3y ago
So that's why my back button didn't work the first time when I tried to return to HN...
hwillis 3y ago
...You realize this "framework" is 181 characters long, right? <a> elements add to the history, it's what they're supposed to do. If you don't want them to do that, don't use <a> elements for UI. Use a button and change the iframe src with javascript. That's not really the library's problem, and it's not really hypertext's problem what the browser is putting into history. > For something that claims to "just be html", it seems to be breaking some fundamental rules of the web/UX. Yes, obviously. HTML+CSS are meant to put boxes and words and images on a screen. If you want to show a spreadsheet with cell formulas, use javascript. Fundamental rules of web/UX are not the same as fundamental rules of hypermedia. > Whether it's a simple mistake or not and easy to fix, it does not inspire confidence in the framework. There's a section on the page titled "Is this a joke?" (not to mention, "Is htmz a library or a framework?"- its a snippet). Confidence is not the point. The point is to demonstrate how little it takes to turn HTML into a stateful UI. As the author says: > If you need something more interactive than the request-response model, you may try the htmz companion scripting language: javazcript. Sorry, I meant JavaScript, a scripting language designed to make HTML interactive. > htmz does not preclude you writing JS or using UI libraries to enhance interaction. You could, say, enhance a single form control with vanillaJS, but the form values could still be submitted as a regular HTTP form with htmz.

phinnaeus 3y ago

So that's why my back button didn't work the first time when I tried to return to HN...

hwillis 3y ago

...You realize this "framework" is 181 characters long, right? <a> elements add to the history, it's what they're supposed to do. If you don't want them to do that, don't use <a> elements for UI. Use a button and change the iframe src with javascript. That's not really the library's problem, and it's not really hypertext's problem what the browser is putting into history. > For something that claims to "just be html", it seems to be breaking some fundamental rules of the web/UX. Yes, obviously. HTML+CSS are meant to put boxes and words and images on a screen. If you want to show a spreadsheet with cell formulas, use javascript. Fundamental rules of web/UX are not the same as fundamental rules of hypermedia. > Whether it's a simple mistake or not and easy to fix, it does not inspire confidence in the framework. There's a section on the page titled "Is this a joke?" (not to mention, "Is htmz a library or a framework?"- its a snippet). Confidence is not the point. The point is to demonstrate how little it takes to turn HTML into a stateful UI. As the author says: > If you need something more interactive than the request-response model, you may try the htmz companion scripting language: javazcript. Sorry, I meant JavaScript, a scripting language designed to make HTML interactive. > htmz does not preclude you writing JS or using UI libraries to enhance interaction. You could, say, enhance a single form control with vanillaJS, but the form values could still be submitted as a regular HTTP form with htmz.