4 ms·

Barring the cosmetic use, do the medical benefits of botox outweigh the bio-terrorism risk to justify its production?

by lxe 3y ago

lxe 3y ago
ChatGPT seems to think so, after a lengthy cost/benefit/risk analysis: https://chat.openai.com/share/83b9dd37-487b-4474-b8ff-5df29e963cf4 https://chat.openai.com/share/83b9dd37-487b-4474-b8ff-5df29e... It thinks that the risk of catastrophic outcome is low, while benefit to individual quality of like is high. I don't know if I agree with this.
- heisenbit 3y ago
  It is a matter of perspective, chances are ChatGPT would do just fine in case of a bio terror event.
- lelandfe 3y ago
  > Is it reasonable to assume that the cons of production of botox outweigh the pros...? Pro-tip, hypotheticals don't really work with LLMs. The rest of your interaction was contaminated by the sentiment proposed.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
There are no meaningful bio-terrorism risks to production and supply chain. The bacteria that make botulinum toxin are found naturally in many places, but it’s rare for them to make people sick. A hypothetical bio-terrorist does not need to break in to a medical factory to procure it
- yellow_lead 3y ago
  While it's true the toxin is found naturally, is it really so easy to make such a large quantity? Making one gram, for instance, might require a very large factory.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    That I don't know. I brew beer and can grow 100g of cultured yeast in a few days in my kitchen. Botulism isn't a hobby I'm looking to get into. Something must be tricky, because several companies have spent billions to try to make a product and failed. However, I suspect that is mostly due to purification and process control. I assume that the reason we haven't seen a botox attack is simply because there are many easier ways to kill people for those inclined.
trhway 3y ago
For bio-terrorism you can just use dirty homemade version. For injection (for cosmetics and valid medical reasons like spasms) you'd want to use clean lab-produced. So I think that is the reason justifying its production. The security theater around, beyond the basic security, is I think mainly just a part of the moat and the politicians having to look tough on anything resembling a possibility for terrorism. I think it is similar to say marijuana research - in half the states one can do at home all the research one likes, yet the the official academia would have to jump through impossible hoops to do any marijuana research.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
Clearly yes since there hasn’t been any cases of weaponized botox attacks. This probably goes to show old fashioned ways of terrorism are significantly easier or more effective for whatever reasons. If botox was an attractive weapon it would have been used already but clearly there is some Great Filter in place preventing that today.

Barring the cosmetic use, do the medical benefits of botox outweigh the bio-terrorism risk to justify its production?

by lxe 3y ago

Barring the cosmetic use, do the medical benefits of botox outweigh the bio-terrorism risk to justify its production?

lxe 3y ago

ChatGPT seems to think so, after a lengthy cost/benefit/risk analysis: https://chat.openai.com/share/83b9dd37-487b-4474-b8ff-5df29e963cf4 https://chat.openai.com/share/83b9dd37-487b-4474-b8ff-5df29e... It thinks that the risk of catastrophic outcome is low, while benefit to individual quality of like is high. I don't know if I agree with this.

heisenbit 3y ago
It is a matter of perspective, chances are ChatGPT would do just fine in case of a bio terror event.
lelandfe 3y ago
> Is it reasonable to assume that the cons of production of botox outweigh the pros...? Pro-tip, hypotheticals don't really work with LLMs. The rest of your interaction was contaminated by the sentiment proposed.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

There are no meaningful bio-terrorism risks to production and supply chain. The bacteria that make botulinum toxin are found naturally in many places, but it’s rare for them to make people sick. A hypothetical bio-terrorist does not need to break in to a medical factory to procure it

yellow_lead 3y ago
While it's true the toxin is found naturally, is it really so easy to make such a large quantity? Making one gram, for instance, might require a very large factory.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  That I don't know. I brew beer and can grow 100g of cultured yeast in a few days in my kitchen. Botulism isn't a hobby I'm looking to get into. Something must be tricky, because several companies have spent billions to try to make a product and failed. However, I suspect that is mostly due to purification and process control. I assume that the reason we haven't seen a botox attack is simply because there are many easier ways to kill people for those inclined.

trhway 3y ago

For bio-terrorism you can just use dirty homemade version. For injection (for cosmetics and valid medical reasons like spasms) you'd want to use clean lab-produced. So I think that is the reason justifying its production. The security theater around, beyond the basic security, is I think mainly just a part of the moat and the politicians having to look tough on anything resembling a possibility for terrorism. I think it is similar to say marijuana research - in half the states one can do at home all the research one likes, yet the the official academia would have to jump through impossible hoops to do any marijuana research.

kjkjadksj 3y ago

Clearly yes since there hasn’t been any cases of weaponized botox attacks. This probably goes to show old fashioned ways of terrorism are significantly easier or more effective for whatever reasons. If botox was an attractive weapon it would have been used already but clearly there is some Great Filter in place preventing that today.