6 ms·

The Feds Just Bet Even Bigger on American-Made Heat Pumps

30 points by voisin 3y ago

reaperman 3y ago
I am so happy that heat pumps are getting more and more attention. They have the opportunity to reduce the energy used to heat a home by 75%. They're not "perfect" (e.g. they don't work at <0F temperatures without truly absurdly large heat-exchange components that aren't worth the capital expense). I also know a lot of people would like the option to use natural gas, but I'd like to think that with this type of additional investment and focus, some future heat pumps could use natural gas as their "backup resistive heating" instead of electric.
- mulderc 3y ago
  Heat pumps are pretty incredible and I am always surprised we don’t see more of them. We recently installed a heat pump water heater and it made a noticeable dent in our electric bill. Next up is a heat pump dryer! Also surprised by the lack of solar water heating in the US. My childhood home had a system but when it broke we could not find anyone that could fix the system and had to remove it.
  - reaperman 3y ago
    > a heat pump water heater and it made a noticeable dent in our electric bill. I think, in most of the USA, a natural gas water heater would have made a similar dent in your overall utility bill. But I still am very glad we're working harder towards good heat pumps.
    - mulderc 3y ago
      I'm very against burning gas in my home to heat things when we have options like heat pumps.
  - cush 3y ago
    Combo Heat pump washer+dryers also just made a huge technical advancement as well, not requiring any ventilation to run, meaning you can put them anywhere in your home with a water line - eg in an unventilated hallway closet with far less risk of fire (dryers cause 92% of house fires). And they use less water and energy per load than a typical washer/dryer.
    - faitswulff 3y ago
      There’s only one of these that I know of (the GE unit), are there any others that you’re aware of?
      - rediguanayum 3y ago
        There's also the LG one. Reviews are so-so about the LG one, with lots of complaints about reliability and clothes smelling cooked after drying with the heat pump.
        cush 3y ago
        They apparently just fixed the reliability issues in their new model with a specialized lint trap
    - germinalphrase 3y ago
      Does water extracted during drying just go down the drain?
      - cush 3y ago
        Yep same drain as a regular washer
    - travisby 3y ago
      I thought that was a really interesting stat (I believed you, I don't mean I went to fact-check you but that's what ended up happening!) and wanted to read more about it -- it sounds like dryer fires aren't _overall_ that destructive, but in the "washer & dryer" category (~16k fires out of ~350k per year) they are 92% of that category. Figured you'd want to know, since I found it interesting! That being said, the dryer fires are certainly preventable and if any technology aids in reducing that, it's well worth it!
  - post_break 3y ago
    I have a heat pump dryer. It's a small LG one. Takes ages to dry but that's the trade off I was willing to make. Super gentle on my clothes, uses hardly any power, no vent to catch on fire.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  > reduce the energy used to heat a home by 75% Compared to resistive heat, sure, but a heat pump powered by fossil fuels isn't much better than a gas furnace. My point is that we need to stop burning fossil fuels for electricity so that heat pumps make sense.
  - rcktmrtn 3y ago
    > Compared to resistive heat, sure, but a heat pump powered by fossil fuels isn't much better than a gas furnace. My point is that we need to stop burning fossil fuels for electricity so that heat pumps make sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance Technically, heat pumps can absolutely achieve greater than 100% efficiency (considering their input electricity as a starting point). It's also true though that there are also lot of caveats about their effectiveness based on temperature differential, maximum output compared to a furnace, efficiency with which the upstream electricity is generated, etc.
    - p1mrx 3y ago
      > considering their input electricity as a starting point I was considering fossil fuels as a starting point, as that's where most of our electricity comes from.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
whatshisface 3y ago
>Like with the first round of funding last year, the administration is invoking the Defense Production Act—a long-standing piece of legislation that grants the president the power to ensure the supply of materials needed for national defense. Mark my words, this planned economy stuff is going to come back and bite us...
- superkuh 3y ago
  I remember when there were tons of subsidies for LED lighting in order to make them competitive with the extremely low prices of incandescent/halogens and their simple low part designs. Then the incandescent/halogen ban went through the the prices of LED light bulbs went through the roof and never came back down. All while LEDs never achieved anything close to the early claims of 100k hours and ended up only be comparable to incandescent in lifetime due to skimping on parts cost in the driver boards. I hope we don't see that play out again with heat pumps. That said, I'm glad there is funding for the design of heat pumps in north american markets. Existing heat pump designs don't really work for continental climate severe cold.
  - poulsbohemian 3y ago
    >prices of LED light bulbs went through the roof and never came back down Maybe I'm buying cheap bulbs but the latest ones I've bought have been very reasonably priced and most definitely are lasting longer than incandescent / halogen. I recently replaced some that had been operating for at least 8 years and likely longer.
  - sydbarrett74 3y ago
    The fact that LED's run cooler than incandescent bulbs makes a palpable difference in the summer.
  - dralley 3y ago
    >All while LEDs never achieved anything close to the early claims of 100k hours and ended up only be comparable to incandescent in lifetime due to skimping on parts cost in the driver boards. I don't know what bulbs you're using but I don't find this to be the case. As an alternative example, the effect of subsidies on the solar panel industry has led to rapid improvements in cost and efficiency.

30 points by voisin 3y ago

I am so happy that heat pumps are getting more and more attention. They have the opportunity to reduce the energy used to heat a home by 75%. They're not "perfect" (e.g. they don't work at <0F temperatures without truly absurdly large heat-exchange components that aren't worth the capital expense). I also know a lot of people would like the option to use natural gas, but I'd like to think that with this type of additional investment and focus, some future heat pumps could use natural gas as their "backup resistive heating" instead of electric.

mulderc 3y ago
Heat pumps are pretty incredible and I am always surprised we don’t see more of them. We recently installed a heat pump water heater and it made a noticeable dent in our electric bill. Next up is a heat pump dryer! Also surprised by the lack of solar water heating in the US. My childhood home had a system but when it broke we could not find anyone that could fix the system and had to remove it.
- reaperman 3y ago
  > a heat pump water heater and it made a noticeable dent in our electric bill. I think, in most of the USA, a natural gas water heater would have made a similar dent in your overall utility bill. But I still am very glad we're working harder towards good heat pumps.
  - mulderc 3y ago
    I'm very against burning gas in my home to heat things when we have options like heat pumps.
- cush 3y ago
  Combo Heat pump washer+dryers also just made a huge technical advancement as well, not requiring any ventilation to run, meaning you can put them anywhere in your home with a water line - eg in an unventilated hallway closet with far less risk of fire (dryers cause 92% of house fires). And they use less water and energy per load than a typical washer/dryer.
  - faitswulff 3y ago
    There’s only one of these that I know of (the GE unit), are there any others that you’re aware of?
    - rediguanayum 3y ago
      There's also the LG one. Reviews are so-so about the LG one, with lots of complaints about reliability and clothes smelling cooked after drying with the heat pump.
      - cush 3y ago
        They apparently just fixed the reliability issues in their new model with a specialized lint trap
  - germinalphrase 3y ago
    Does water extracted during drying just go down the drain?
    - cush 3y ago
      Yep same drain as a regular washer
  - travisby 3y ago
    I thought that was a really interesting stat (I believed you, I don't mean I went to fact-check you but that's what ended up happening!) and wanted to read more about it -- it sounds like dryer fires aren't _overall_ that destructive, but in the "washer & dryer" category (~16k fires out of ~350k per year) they are 92% of that category. Figured you'd want to know, since I found it interesting! That being said, the dryer fires are certainly preventable and if any technology aids in reducing that, it's well worth it!
- post_break 3y ago
  I have a heat pump dryer. It's a small LG one. Takes ages to dry but that's the trade off I was willing to make. Super gentle on my clothes, uses hardly any power, no vent to catch on fire.
p1mrx 3y ago
> reduce the energy used to heat a home by 75% Compared to resistive heat, sure, but a heat pump powered by fossil fuels isn't much better than a gas furnace. My point is that we need to stop burning fossil fuels for electricity so that heat pumps make sense.
- rcktmrtn 3y ago
  > Compared to resistive heat, sure, but a heat pump powered by fossil fuels isn't much better than a gas furnace. My point is that we need to stop burning fossil fuels for electricity so that heat pumps make sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance Technically, heat pumps can absolutely achieve greater than 100% efficiency (considering their input electricity as a starting point). It's also true though that there are also lot of caveats about their effectiveness based on temperature differential, maximum output compared to a furnace, efficiency with which the upstream electricity is generated, etc.
  - p1mrx 3y ago
    > considering their input electricity as a starting point I was considering fossil fuels as a starting point, as that's where most of our electricity comes from.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

whatshisface 3y ago

>Like with the first round of funding last year, the administration is invoking the Defense Production Act—a long-standing piece of legislation that grants the president the power to ensure the supply of materials needed for national defense. Mark my words, this planned economy stuff is going to come back and bite us...

superkuh 3y ago
I remember when there were tons of subsidies for LED lighting in order to make them competitive with the extremely low prices of incandescent/halogens and their simple low part designs. Then the incandescent/halogen ban went through the the prices of LED light bulbs went through the roof and never came back down. All while LEDs never achieved anything close to the early claims of 100k hours and ended up only be comparable to incandescent in lifetime due to skimping on parts cost in the driver boards. I hope we don't see that play out again with heat pumps. That said, I'm glad there is funding for the design of heat pumps in north american markets. Existing heat pump designs don't really work for continental climate severe cold.
- poulsbohemian 3y ago
  >prices of LED light bulbs went through the roof and never came back down Maybe I'm buying cheap bulbs but the latest ones I've bought have been very reasonably priced and most definitely are lasting longer than incandescent / halogen. I recently replaced some that had been operating for at least 8 years and likely longer.
- sydbarrett74 3y ago
  The fact that LED's run cooler than incandescent bulbs makes a palpable difference in the summer.
- dralley 3y ago
  >All while LEDs never achieved anything close to the early claims of 100k hours and ended up only be comparable to incandescent in lifetime due to skimping on parts cost in the driver boards. I don't know what bulbs you're using but I don't find this to be the case. As an alternative example, the effect of subsidies on the solar panel industry has led to rapid improvements in cost and efficiency.