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This doesn't pass the sniff test for me... The article claims that plastic bag waste went from 4.08 tons to 5.89 tons per 1000 people from 2014 to 2022, then at

This doesn't pass the sniff test for me... The article claims that plastic bag waste went from 4.08 tons to 5.89 tons per 1000 people from 2014 to 2022, then attributes that to the new heavier bags. I don't have good numbers but as a terrible estimate let's say an old single use bag was 5 grams and a newer one is 30 grams. If plastic bag weight really went up almost 50% per capita, using that assumption that an individual bag (which can now hold more since it's sturdier and doesn't need to be double-bagged, but we'll ignore that for the sake of estimation) increased in weight by a factor of 6, that means (unless I've done my math, if you use the term loosely, wrong) roughly one in five people never re-uses grocery bags. Considering that a lot of people would be inconsistent about remembering reusable bags, you'd expect to see more than one in five people using the store provided bags on any given trip to the grocery store, and that doesn't align with my anecdotal observations whatsoever

martycon 3y ago
Plastic bag use went up in California because of covid. Some moron said reusable bags spread covid germs. So stores banned reusable bags for many years. It's just back to normal where reusable bags are acceptable to bring in by the customer.
cfn 3y ago
We introduced similar laws here in Portugal last year and my anedoctal observation is that most people buy the thicker bags at 10-20 cents. It is also very obvious that many items that used to be sold loose are now packaged or bring their own plastic or paper bag. I'm looking forward to the statistics next year. EDIT: It is not clear above, I mean that most people don't reuse the bags, they just buy new ones each time.
- flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, would you consider the grocery stores you visit to be relatively representative of the country overall? That was the biggest flaw with my line of reasoning, I'm not sure how representative my grocery store experience is, though I'm basing it off of visits to grocery stores across multiple states and varying levels of affluence
  - cfn 3y ago
    No, I don't think so. I live in a small island in one of the poorest regions of Portugal (thus Europe). This is just my observation at a local level.
gruez 3y ago
>I don't have good numbers but as a terrible estimate let's say an old single use bag was 5 grams and a newer one is 30 grams. So, a factor of 6? Try a factor of 40[1] instead. [1] 0.5 mil vs 20 mil https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/ https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/
- flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
  You didn't read your own source, that website your linked cited 2.5 mil. I guess I was off by a factor of 1
  - gruez 3y ago
    Before accusing people of not reading the source, you should double check your understanding of the same source. The table does list 2.5 mil, but that's for "Thick plastic bag". The thickness for "Thin Plastic Bag" is indeed 0.5 mil.
    - flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
      Right. Thin plastic to thick plastic is 0.5 to 2.5. That's a factor of 5, I guessed 6, off by one. The factor of 40 you originally cited is based off the site's 20 mil figure for actual reusable bags. It's ok to misread, no need to play the victim when both your comments make it clear what happened
      - gruez 3y ago
        > Right. Thin plastic to thick plastic is 0.5 to 2.5. [...] >The factor of 40 you originally cited is based off the site's 20 mil figure for actual reusable bags. ??? At what point were we discussing thin vs thick bags? I thought the whole point of the conversation was talking about regular bags vs reusable bags? >It's ok to misread, no need to play the victim when both your comments make it clear what happened This is an absolutely bizarre accusation to make. I'm not sure how asking someone to re-read a source is "play[ing] the victim", especially when it's in response to a comment asking the same thing. If anyone is engaging in bad faith accusations, it's you.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cal85 3y ago
I almost always have to buy bags. I tend to pick up groceries on a whim while already out and about so I don’t have bags with me. And even when I go out specifically for groceries, I usually forget to bring bags. I consider it a tax for being a disorganised and forgetful person. The idea that 1/5 people are like me doesn’t surprise me at all. Also apparently 30g is the low end for the thicker bags - this site says they weigh 30-120g: https://weightofallthings.com/how-much-does-a-plastic-bag-weigh/#Average_Weight_of_Different_Types_of_Plastic_Bags_in_2023 https://weightofallthings.com/how-much-does-a-plastic-bag-we...
- flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
  Based on a bit of extra research 30g is pretty middle of the road for the bags in question. 120g is for actually reusable bags, what folks are calling "bag for life"
  - cal85 3y ago
    I’m definitely talking about the actually reusable bags, which is often all that is available these days. It’s got more and more extreme over the last couple of years. The two supermarkets near me (Morrisons and Waitrose) only sell these stiff heavy duty bags that cost about £2. I’m sure they’re well over 100g. (I think Sainsbury’s and M&S do still have the slightly thick kind that are probably 30g.)
    - flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
      Well you're definitely talking about the wrong thing, because this article is specifically talking about thick plastic bags (which are also called reusable), the kind you can buy as you check out for 10 cents each in most US states (and in particular, in California which this article is about) And unless people frequently throw out the expensive kind of reusable bag their weight isn't relevant anyway.
cptskippy 3y ago
> that doesn't align with my anecdotal observations whatsoever Are you factoring in all of the people you don't see? What about everyone who picks up groceries or has them delivered? 100% of those transactions use the "reusable" bags. You even provide an example of how your reasoning fails: > ...which can now hold more since it's sturdier ... Just because something can hold more, doesn't mean it will. Someone who needs a disposable bag to hold 3 items they just bought now has to use the heavier duty bag. People don't want to over-pack bags because certain items will be crushed or damaged. They tend to under pack or individually pack certain items. Those people are now using heavy duty reusable bags for a task that the old light weight bags would have sufficed.

martycon 3y ago

Plastic bag use went up in California because of covid. Some moron said reusable bags spread covid germs. So stores banned reusable bags for many years. It's just back to normal where reusable bags are acceptable to bring in by the customer.

cfn 3y ago

We introduced similar laws here in Portugal last year and my anedoctal observation is that most people buy the thicker bags at 10-20 cents. It is also very obvious that many items that used to be sold loose are now packaged or bring their own plastic or paper bag. I'm looking forward to the statistics next year. EDIT: It is not clear above, I mean that most people don't reuse the bags, they just buy new ones each time.

flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
Out of curiosity, would you consider the grocery stores you visit to be relatively representative of the country overall? That was the biggest flaw with my line of reasoning, I'm not sure how representative my grocery store experience is, though I'm basing it off of visits to grocery stores across multiple states and varying levels of affluence
- cfn 3y ago
  No, I don't think so. I live in a small island in one of the poorest regions of Portugal (thus Europe). This is just my observation at a local level.

gruez 3y ago

>I don't have good numbers but as a terrible estimate let's say an old single use bag was 5 grams and a newer one is 30 grams. So, a factor of 6? Try a factor of 40[1] instead. [1] 0.5 mil vs 20 mil https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/ https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/

flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
You didn't read your own source, that website your linked cited 2.5 mil. I guess I was off by a factor of 1
- gruez 3y ago
  Before accusing people of not reading the source, you should double check your understanding of the same source. The table does list 2.5 mil, but that's for "Thick plastic bag". The thickness for "Thin Plastic Bag" is indeed 0.5 mil.
  - flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
    Right. Thin plastic to thick plastic is 0.5 to 2.5. That's a factor of 5, I guessed 6, off by one. The factor of 40 you originally cited is based off the site's 20 mil figure for actual reusable bags. It's ok to misread, no need to play the victim when both your comments make it clear what happened
    - gruez 3y ago
      > Right. Thin plastic to thick plastic is 0.5 to 2.5. [...] >The factor of 40 you originally cited is based off the site's 20 mil figure for actual reusable bags. ??? At what point were we discussing thin vs thick bags? I thought the whole point of the conversation was talking about regular bags vs reusable bags? >It's ok to misread, no need to play the victim when both your comments make it clear what happened This is an absolutely bizarre accusation to make. I'm not sure how asking someone to re-read a source is "play[ing] the victim", especially when it's in response to a comment asking the same thing. If anyone is engaging in bad faith accusations, it's you.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cal85 3y ago

I almost always have to buy bags. I tend to pick up groceries on a whim while already out and about so I don’t have bags with me. And even when I go out specifically for groceries, I usually forget to bring bags. I consider it a tax for being a disorganised and forgetful person. The idea that 1/5 people are like me doesn’t surprise me at all. Also apparently 30g is the low end for the thicker bags - this site says they weigh 30-120g: https://weightofallthings.com/how-much-does-a-plastic-bag-weigh/#Average_Weight_of_Different_Types_of_Plastic_Bags_in_2023 https://weightofallthings.com/how-much-does-a-plastic-bag-we...

flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
Based on a bit of extra research 30g is pretty middle of the road for the bags in question. 120g is for actually reusable bags, what folks are calling "bag for life"
- cal85 3y ago
  I’m definitely talking about the actually reusable bags, which is often all that is available these days. It’s got more and more extreme over the last couple of years. The two supermarkets near me (Morrisons and Waitrose) only sell these stiff heavy duty bags that cost about £2. I’m sure they’re well over 100g. (I think Sainsbury’s and M&S do still have the slightly thick kind that are probably 30g.)
  - flaminHotSpeedo 3y ago
    Well you're definitely talking about the wrong thing, because this article is specifically talking about thick plastic bags (which are also called reusable), the kind you can buy as you check out for 10 cents each in most US states (and in particular, in California which this article is about) And unless people frequently throw out the expensive kind of reusable bag their weight isn't relevant anyway.

cptskippy 3y ago

> that doesn't align with my anecdotal observations whatsoever Are you factoring in all of the people you don't see? What about everyone who picks up groceries or has them delivered? 100% of those transactions use the "reusable" bags. You even provide an example of how your reasoning fails: > ...which can now hold more since it's sturdier ... Just because something can hold more, doesn't mean it will. Someone who needs a disposable bag to hold 3 items they just bought now has to use the heavier duty bag. People don't want to over-pack bags because certain items will be crushed or damaged. They tend to under pack or individually pack certain items. Those people are now using heavy duty reusable bags for a task that the old light weight bags would have sufficed.