4 ms·

Where is the freedom in China. Could you imagine if the US Congress called the heads of its most prominent universities in, and lambasted them for not cracking

Where is the freedom in China. Could you imagine if the US Congress called the heads of its most prominent universities in, and lambasted them for not cracking down on student groups critical of US imperialism, and then those university heads were fired? Things like that don't happen in the land of the free. China, please look to the American example of freedom.

claytongulick 3y ago
> for not cracking down on student groups critical of US imperialism My understanding is that the controversy you are referring to was regarding what circumstances it is ok for students to call for genocide against Jews, and whether that specific speech would violate the universities' policies against hate speech. I don't think it's accurate to reframe that controversy as "critical of US imperialism".
- feedforward 3y ago
  The original Likud charter said from the river to the sea should be Jewish domination. Netanyahu recently affirmed that. Funny to speak of genocide when the self-described Jewish state is committing genocide in Gaza and is being brought up on charges of genocide at the ICJ. The words Jews and genocide will be linked from now and in the future - the genocide the Jewish state is committing against the Palestinians. In November the UN voted recently Palestinians have the right to self-determination. The only countries who voted against were Israel, the US, US compact member Micronesia, and the 10,000 population island of Nauru which gets a UN vote although the US blocks Palestine from having one. 70% of Americans want a ceasefire incidentally. The world and 70% of Americans stand in horror against the genocide the self-described Jewish state is committing.
  - claytongulick 3y ago
    You can read the transcripts of the testimony here [1]. Regardless of your position on Israel, it is inaccurate to frame the speech that was being debated as students who are "critical of US imperialism". Whether that speech is protected, whether it violates university's hate speech rules, and the Israel/Hamas conflict are completely different subjects. Language matters. The post I replied to inaccurately characterized congressional testimony as part of an attempt to make a partisan political point. Debating and discussing these subjects is important, and it's also important that we do so accurately. Manipulating language to maximize outrage reaction detracts from our ability to discuss subjects objectively. [1] https://rollcall.com/2023/12/13/transcript-what-harvard-mit-and-penn-presidents-said-at-antisemitism-hearing/ https://rollcall.com/2023/12/13/transcript-what-harvard-mit-...
phone8675309 3y ago
> Could you imagine if the US Congress called the heads of its most prominent universities in, and lambasted them for not cracking down on student groups critical of US imperialism, and then those university heads were fired? The difference between the US and China is that in the US, political hacks can call for people to be fired from their job. In China those same people instead are put in front of a firing squad.
scarecrowbob 3y ago
I mean, when I was a student I organized an anti-war rally in 2003. I was called into the president's office and the president of the university told me to cut it out. So, not hard to imagine that happening further up the chain. I mean, I didn't get shot or put in jail, so there's that. At the same time, the US ignored rather large protests and proceeded to get around 1M folks killed. I think that's a reasonable summation of freedom in the US- the folks with the power know they have it, so it's more a question of "stern talkings-to", and then they do whatever the folks who own the place want to do. Which, I suppose is "freedom". Not a very satisfying freedom, at least from my point of view.

claytongulick 3y ago

> for not cracking down on student groups critical of US imperialism My understanding is that the controversy you are referring to was regarding what circumstances it is ok for students to call for genocide against Jews, and whether that specific speech would violate the universities' policies against hate speech. I don't think it's accurate to reframe that controversy as "critical of US imperialism".

feedforward 3y ago
The original Likud charter said from the river to the sea should be Jewish domination. Netanyahu recently affirmed that. Funny to speak of genocide when the self-described Jewish state is committing genocide in Gaza and is being brought up on charges of genocide at the ICJ. The words Jews and genocide will be linked from now and in the future - the genocide the Jewish state is committing against the Palestinians. In November the UN voted recently Palestinians have the right to self-determination. The only countries who voted against were Israel, the US, US compact member Micronesia, and the 10,000 population island of Nauru which gets a UN vote although the US blocks Palestine from having one. 70% of Americans want a ceasefire incidentally. The world and 70% of Americans stand in horror against the genocide the self-described Jewish state is committing.
- claytongulick 3y ago
  You can read the transcripts of the testimony here [1]. Regardless of your position on Israel, it is inaccurate to frame the speech that was being debated as students who are "critical of US imperialism". Whether that speech is protected, whether it violates university's hate speech rules, and the Israel/Hamas conflict are completely different subjects. Language matters. The post I replied to inaccurately characterized congressional testimony as part of an attempt to make a partisan political point. Debating and discussing these subjects is important, and it's also important that we do so accurately. Manipulating language to maximize outrage reaction detracts from our ability to discuss subjects objectively. [1] https://rollcall.com/2023/12/13/transcript-what-harvard-mit-and-penn-presidents-said-at-antisemitism-hearing/ https://rollcall.com/2023/12/13/transcript-what-harvard-mit-...

phone8675309 3y ago

> Could you imagine if the US Congress called the heads of its most prominent universities in, and lambasted them for not cracking down on student groups critical of US imperialism, and then those university heads were fired? The difference between the US and China is that in the US, political hacks can call for people to be fired from their job. In China those same people instead are put in front of a firing squad.

scarecrowbob 3y ago

I mean, when I was a student I organized an anti-war rally in 2003. I was called into the president's office and the president of the university told me to cut it out. So, not hard to imagine that happening further up the chain. I mean, I didn't get shot or put in jail, so there's that. At the same time, the US ignored rather large protests and proceeded to get around 1M folks killed. I think that's a reasonable summation of freedom in the US- the folks with the power know they have it, so it's more a question of "stern talkings-to", and then they do whatever the folks who own the place want to do. Which, I suppose is "freedom". Not a very satisfying freedom, at least from my point of view.