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Even today there are places where both a bride-price and dowry both happen. There is no reason they cannot coexist - because they do. The bride-price is a sort

by IncRnd 3y ago

Even today there are places where both a bride-price and dowry both happen. There is no reason they cannot coexist - because they do. The bride-price is a sort of contract of exclusivity payment from the groom's parents to the bride's parents, and the dowry is from the bride's parents to the groom/couple in order for the bride to have a certain level of life. They serve entirely different purposes.

pyuser583 3y ago
Thank you! I did not know that!
hnbad 3y ago
> the dowry is from the bride's parents to the groom/couple in order for the bride to have a certain level of life There are actually three distinct concepts that can all occur within the same culture: - the dowry is paid by the bride's family and can either go to the groom or the groom's family - the bride price is paid by the groom's family and can either go to the bride or the bride's family - the dower is paid by the groom or the groom's family to the bride The dower specifically functions to protect the bride against poverty in the event the husband dies or becomes unfaithful or neglectful. The bride price or dowry can either function as payment for securing the bride/groom into wedlock or to fund the couple's new family. The terms "bride price" and "dowry" seem to be only defined by who pays it and either can refer to something paid to the other side's family or to the newly wed couple. That distinction seems to be entirely down to the cultural attitudes. IIRC there are even cultures where a bride price or dowry paid to the other side's family (as a form of "reimbursement" or "exclusivity payment" as you say) depends more on the relative status of each family, so a higher status family would be paid either way even if the amounts might differ due to the way inheritances are handled (e.g. if only the sons get to inherit their parents property, a son might be more valuable than a daughter). Keep in mind that marriages often also served to unite the two families/tribes/dynasties as a form of diplomacy.
- pyuser583 3y ago
  In the Iliad, Agamemnon offers Achilles one of his daughter (whichever Achilles wants) with “no bride price, and full dowry.” Agamemnon is the leader of the Greeks, but he is of slightly lower social standing than Achilles. He is the leader because he agreed to sacrifice his daughter to the gods to guarantee success victory in war, but this victory will only happen if Achilles joins him. Agamemnon has tons of daughters and no sons. He is extremely willing to expend his daughters. This may or may not be because he doesn’t want to pay their dowries. In return, Achilles must recognize Agamemnons kingship, and agree to follow orders. Achilles knows from divine prophecy if he accepts Agamemnons offer he will die very soon, so he doesn’t really care. The marriage isn’t happening regardless. But Achilles wants to join the battle, and die, for personal reasons (vengeance) unrelated to Agamemnon. So the offer of “marriage with no bride price and full dowry” is just a sad pathetic joke. It’s a way for Agamemnon to seem like he’s in control, and to remind the Greeks why he’s king - because he’s a narcissistic psychopath who will do necessary, but horrible things nobody else will do. The distinction between bride price and dowry only serves to show Agamemnon is making up the rules and the whole thing is a farce.

by IncRnd 3y ago

pyuser583 3y ago

Thank you! I did not know that!

hnbad 3y ago

> the dowry is from the bride's parents to the groom/couple in order for the bride to have a certain level of life There are actually three distinct concepts that can all occur within the same culture: - the dowry is paid by the bride's family and can either go to the groom or the groom's family - the bride price is paid by the groom's family and can either go to the bride or the bride's family - the dower is paid by the groom or the groom's family to the bride The dower specifically functions to protect the bride against poverty in the event the husband dies or becomes unfaithful or neglectful. The bride price or dowry can either function as payment for securing the bride/groom into wedlock or to fund the couple's new family. The terms "bride price" and "dowry" seem to be only defined by who pays it and either can refer to something paid to the other side's family or to the newly wed couple. That distinction seems to be entirely down to the cultural attitudes. IIRC there are even cultures where a bride price or dowry paid to the other side's family (as a form of "reimbursement" or "exclusivity payment" as you say) depends more on the relative status of each family, so a higher status family would be paid either way even if the amounts might differ due to the way inheritances are handled (e.g. if only the sons get to inherit their parents property, a son might be more valuable than a daughter). Keep in mind that marriages often also served to unite the two families/tribes/dynasties as a form of diplomacy.

pyuser583 3y ago
In the Iliad, Agamemnon offers Achilles one of his daughter (whichever Achilles wants) with “no bride price, and full dowry.” Agamemnon is the leader of the Greeks, but he is of slightly lower social standing than Achilles. He is the leader because he agreed to sacrifice his daughter to the gods to guarantee success victory in war, but this victory will only happen if Achilles joins him. Agamemnon has tons of daughters and no sons. He is extremely willing to expend his daughters. This may or may not be because he doesn’t want to pay their dowries. In return, Achilles must recognize Agamemnons kingship, and agree to follow orders. Achilles knows from divine prophecy if he accepts Agamemnons offer he will die very soon, so he doesn’t really care. The marriage isn’t happening regardless. But Achilles wants to join the battle, and die, for personal reasons (vengeance) unrelated to Agamemnon. So the offer of “marriage with no bride price and full dowry” is just a sad pathetic joke. It’s a way for Agamemnon to seem like he’s in control, and to remind the Greeks why he’s king - because he’s a narcissistic psychopath who will do necessary, but horrible things nobody else will do. The distinction between bride price and dowry only serves to show Agamemnon is making up the rules and the whole thing is a farce.