4 ms·

I recently bought an EV and it's obvious that they still have some significant downsides: expensive up front and poor public charging situation, mostly. The ID

I recently bought an EV and it's obvious that they still have some significant downsides: expensive up front and poor public charging situation, mostly. The ID4 we got is very comfortable to drive around in, but doing a road trip in Winter feels out of the question. Not that it'd be completely impossible, mind, but I'm pretty confident it'd be a pain in the ass. We'd need to stop more frequently than in our CRV, for a longer period of time each time, and the whole situation with electric car chargers are that sometimes they're broken or working worse than expected, or they're all taken (and it takes way long for a spot to be freed up than at a gas station), or there's problems with the software running the charger, etc. It'd also be nice if it charged faster and had more range too; it's not terrible on those metrics, but I wouldn't say it's great. Certainly not comparable at all to gas cars.

kiba 3y ago
Most people don't do roadtrip. They just charge at home. If you drive a tesla, a supercharger stall is usually available. No other kind of chargers I found either work, or are compatible with my tesla.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  Yes, this is exactly what we do. But it would be nice to be able to road trip more easily, and 100% this is an important factor in a lot of people's decisions, even if road tripping is something they do only infrequently.
- rayiner 3y ago
  > Most people don't do roadtrip. They just charge at home. It’s very common for Americans to drive long distances to visit family for holidays.
  - loeg 3y ago
    The median American lives within 18 miles of their mom and 80% within "a couple hours."[0] 55% are within an hour's drive of their extended family.[1] The majority of Americans do not drive long distances for holidays. It's common, but like, most people aren't doing it, which is congruent with GP's statement that "most people don't roadtrip." [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-family.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-f... [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/05/18/more-than-half-of-americans-live-within-an-hour-of-extended-family/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/05/18/more-than...
    - greedo 3y ago
      So a couple of hours. Say 140 miles. In winter, that's about your max range in a Model 3/Y. So you arrive with so little juice, and at a house that has no charger. So you have to charge forever on 110v. Then limp your car to a Supercharger and wait forever to get to 80%. Then make a stop halfway home to charge again. Winter does NOT like EVs...
    - doubloon 3y ago
      this is the type of thing i would say before i actually got an EV. now that i have an EV and no place at home to charge it (like tens of millions of other Americans) and have to use public infrastructure... its crap. its just utter crap. yes 90% of trips are not road trips but people do not want to buy a car that can do 90% of what they want any more than they would buy shoes or clothes that only work 90 percent of the time. (and imagine if you could only buy one pair of shoes or one shirt).
      - loeg 3y ago
        Yeah, I agree that buying an EV without charging at home doesn't make much sense. And if you do need to drive many hours, even occasionally, that would be a great reason not to get an EV. To be clear: I don't own an EV, nor am I planning to buy an EV next time I need a car.
  - wcfields 3y ago
    Midwest especially; growing up a one day drive across the entire width of Illinois and Indiana to see relatives was a common occurrence for the holidays and our summer family trip.
ein0p 3y ago
Should have bought a Tesla - they had the foresight to actually build their supercharger network which makes longer trips feasible, if not necessarily as convenient. But I go on long roadtrips (by which I mean longer than 200-250 miles) maybe once a year, if that. What you’ve described is not an issue to the vast majority of Tesla owners.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  My wife really disliked the Model Y we took for a test drive, especially the road visualization that you can't turn off for some reason. Can't fully blame her, the thing looked unstable/distracting, and making it impossible to turn off is a bizarre UX decision. But yes, I'm aware that Tesla has the charger situation handled much better.
  - doctor_eval 3y ago
    Does anyone know what that visualisation is about? It doesn’t bother me, but it also doesn’t help me or give me any useful information. If it showed me the road behind me, for example, that would be super useful for lane changing. But it doesn’t. I have never once been able to work out what it does, and would love to see the map take up the whole screen, or maybe a list of route instructions could go there. I also noticed that the “full self driving preview” option seems to have disappeared (it never worked anyway, guessing it’s because we drive on the left)
    - saratogacx 3y ago
      My assumption was that it was to help build confidence in their self-driving by always showing you what it sees no matter if it is control or not. It does have some effect in that you start to get a feeling of what situations the car has a good idea about the surroundings and when it struggles. There is probably a "it looks cool" factor that doesn't hurt. As far as UX options. Providing customization is old-school thinking these days :/
      - doctor_eval 3y ago
coliveira 3y ago
The truth is that EVs work very well in China and parts of Europe because they have good public transportation, so the EV is used only for minor or infrequent trips. For anything longer they will use trains. In the US the situation is different, you need to use cars for major trips, which is not the best option if you have an EV.
- qwytw 3y ago
  > longer they will use trains There isn't really any data backing up this claim. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/edn-20230918-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/e... Planes are much popular and this data seems to include commuters so the proportion of people travelling medium to long distances by train is much lower (and most medium/intercity travel is obviously usually done by car and not trains..) Amongst other significant issues (e.g. cross border travel) high-speed trains tend to be quite expensive, so unless you're travelling alone a car is usually cheaper.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    This is what I still can't comprehend about Amtrak. I priced out a bus trip to a few states away and it was <$40. Amtrak cost more than a plane ticket. Is it astonishingly overpriced because nobody uses it and then nobody uses it because it's astonishingly overpriced?
    - coliveira 3y ago
      Train systems require heavy government investment until they can (maybe) produce any profit. But the same is true for other transportation systems: the auto industry is also heavily subsidized at all levels in the US, you just don't hear the numbers.
      - rayiner 3y ago
        Amtrak is heavily subsidized: the federal government pays for its capital expenses (tracks, tunnels, etc); Amtrak is expected to cover its operating expenses (employees, etc). Very common arrangement all over the world.

kiba 3y ago

Most people don't do roadtrip. They just charge at home. If you drive a tesla, a supercharger stall is usually available. No other kind of chargers I found either work, or are compatible with my tesla.

TulliusCicero 3y ago
Yes, this is exactly what we do. But it would be nice to be able to road trip more easily, and 100% this is an important factor in a lot of people's decisions, even if road tripping is something they do only infrequently.
rayiner 3y ago
> Most people don't do roadtrip. They just charge at home. It’s very common for Americans to drive long distances to visit family for holidays.
- loeg 3y ago
  The median American lives within 18 miles of their mom and 80% within "a couple hours."[0] 55% are within an hour's drive of their extended family.[1] The majority of Americans do not drive long distances for holidays. It's common, but like, most people aren't doing it, which is congruent with GP's statement that "most people don't roadtrip." [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-family.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-f... [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/05/18/more-than-half-of-americans-live-within-an-hour-of-extended-family/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/05/18/more-than...
  - greedo 3y ago
    So a couple of hours. Say 140 miles. In winter, that's about your max range in a Model 3/Y. So you arrive with so little juice, and at a house that has no charger. So you have to charge forever on 110v. Then limp your car to a Supercharger and wait forever to get to 80%. Then make a stop halfway home to charge again. Winter does NOT like EVs...
  - doubloon 3y ago
    this is the type of thing i would say before i actually got an EV. now that i have an EV and no place at home to charge it (like tens of millions of other Americans) and have to use public infrastructure... its crap. its just utter crap. yes 90% of trips are not road trips but people do not want to buy a car that can do 90% of what they want any more than they would buy shoes or clothes that only work 90 percent of the time. (and imagine if you could only buy one pair of shoes or one shirt).
    - loeg 3y ago
      Yeah, I agree that buying an EV without charging at home doesn't make much sense. And if you do need to drive many hours, even occasionally, that would be a great reason not to get an EV. To be clear: I don't own an EV, nor am I planning to buy an EV next time I need a car.
- wcfields 3y ago
  Midwest especially; growing up a one day drive across the entire width of Illinois and Indiana to see relatives was a common occurrence for the holidays and our summer family trip.

ein0p 3y ago

Should have bought a Tesla - they had the foresight to actually build their supercharger network which makes longer trips feasible, if not necessarily as convenient. But I go on long roadtrips (by which I mean longer than 200-250 miles) maybe once a year, if that. What you’ve described is not an issue to the vast majority of Tesla owners.

TulliusCicero 3y ago
My wife really disliked the Model Y we took for a test drive, especially the road visualization that you can't turn off for some reason. Can't fully blame her, the thing looked unstable/distracting, and making it impossible to turn off is a bizarre UX decision. But yes, I'm aware that Tesla has the charger situation handled much better.
- doctor_eval 3y ago
  Does anyone know what that visualisation is about? It doesn’t bother me, but it also doesn’t help me or give me any useful information. If it showed me the road behind me, for example, that would be super useful for lane changing. But it doesn’t. I have never once been able to work out what it does, and would love to see the map take up the whole screen, or maybe a list of route instructions could go there. I also noticed that the “full self driving preview” option seems to have disappeared (it never worked anyway, guessing it’s because we drive on the left)
  - saratogacx 3y ago
    My assumption was that it was to help build confidence in their self-driving by always showing you what it sees no matter if it is control or not. It does have some effect in that you start to get a feeling of what situations the car has a good idea about the surroundings and when it struggles. There is probably a "it looks cool" factor that doesn't hurt. As far as UX options. Providing customization is old-school thinking these days :/
    - doctor_eval 3y ago

coliveira 3y ago

The truth is that EVs work very well in China and parts of Europe because they have good public transportation, so the EV is used only for minor or infrequent trips. For anything longer they will use trains. In the US the situation is different, you need to use cars for major trips, which is not the best option if you have an EV.

qwytw 3y ago
> longer they will use trains There isn't really any data backing up this claim. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/edn-20230918-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/e... Planes are much popular and this data seems to include commuters so the proportion of people travelling medium to long distances by train is much lower (and most medium/intercity travel is obviously usually done by car and not trains..) Amongst other significant issues (e.g. cross border travel) high-speed trains tend to be quite expensive, so unless you're travelling alone a car is usually cheaper.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  This is what I still can't comprehend about Amtrak. I priced out a bus trip to a few states away and it was <$40. Amtrak cost more than a plane ticket. Is it astonishingly overpriced because nobody uses it and then nobody uses it because it's astonishingly overpriced?
  - coliveira 3y ago
    Train systems require heavy government investment until they can (maybe) produce any profit. But the same is true for other transportation systems: the auto industry is also heavily subsidized at all levels in the US, you just don't hear the numbers.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      Amtrak is heavily subsidized: the federal government pays for its capital expenses (tracks, tunnels, etc); Amtrak is expected to cover its operating expenses (employees, etc). Very common arrangement all over the world.