4 ms·

Making it of plastic instead of metal (even if that would feel less premium) and not putting a useless screen at the front would be a good start. This thing is

Making it of plastic instead of metal (even if that would feel less premium) and not putting a useless screen at the front would be a good start. This thing is heavier than a Quest 3 and doesn't even have a battery in it.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>This thing is heavier than a Quest 3 and doesn't even have a battery in it. Apple has almost always been more form over function. Premium materials and slim, shiny looks over ergonomics. See the Apple mouse. I think the last product Apple ever made that cared about ergonomics was the sunflower iMac G4, the best Mac Apple ever released, then the downfall started where everything needed to be unnecessarily thin and lacking in any adjustments for the sake of thinness and minimalism that look good in a white sterile showroom but suck at daily usage.
- vundercind 3y ago
  The Apple mouse seemed dumb until I actually tried one. It was pretty good and the thing everyone complains about wasn’t a problem at all.
  - grugagag 3y ago
    Is that the mouse that had a charging port right underneath so you couldn’t possibly charge while using?
    - vundercind 3y ago
      Yes. I also thought that was dumb. Then I used one for several months and it caused problems exactly zero times, and probably did lead to me not using it plugged-in all the time out of habit developed from other wireless accessories, so I re-assessed.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    It's not a problem that it's unusable when the battery is flat? Do you mean "I'm willing to inconvenience myself in order to use this product"?
    - suction 3y ago
      [dead]
    - vundercind 3y ago
      It wasn’t inconvenient because you could get a day’s worth of charge, from dead battery, in about ten minutes and it lasted many days between full charges. I used one for several months and never once was it any amount of problem or inconvenience. Time lost because I couldn’t use the mouse when I needed to was zero. Meanwhile, I probably would have left it plugged in all the time if not for that, out of battery-anxiety from using crappy rechargeable accessories that charge slowly and discharge fast. I didn’t need to be willing to inconvenience myself because it was never inconvenient.
      - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        OK, so not everyone remembers to plug it in, and when you are under pressure 10 minutes might just be a disaster, or at least very annoying. It's fine if it works for you, but more broadly it's not very practical, and the reason for that is the long running Apple disease of form over function.
        vundercind 3y ago
        It’s a bad example because it’s really not a problem. There exist good examples. When people pick that one to call out it’s a good sign they haven’t used much Apple hardware (or they’d pick a better one)
        dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        I bought my first Mac in 1986 and kept on buying until about 2010 when the product quality turned to shit. I've used actual good Apple hardware but some who live in the current Apple ghetto have never had the experience. They created many great machines in that time but also misguided junk. In my view the "magic" mouse falls into the later category. But maybe try something other than an ad hominem or "my n=1 survey shows..." argument next time to be more convincing.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    That's why most Mac users use Logitech mice?
    - vundercind 3y ago
      For the real buttons. I do that too, solely because I also use that mouse for gaming. Apple mouse would be better otherwise, but I don’t want two mice. Or sometimes people find a larger shape more ergonomic. Depends on the person and how they mouse, I think. I had one of the wireless Apple mice at work for a while and it was a really good mouse. The “dumb” port (I agreed with this assessment before using one!) was never, ever any problem at all. At home, I use Logitech, because I also game with it and am willing to compromise a (very) little on its suitability for work to not have multiple mice.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        We get you love it but your opinion is not shared by the majority.
        vundercind 3y ago
        I don’t love it, it was just an entirely fine mouse and the “dumb” thing wasn’t an actual problem. I tend to assume people who use that as their go-to example of Apple letting aesthetics beat function have just never used one and are guessing. You want dumb design shit from Apple that’s actually inconvenient, losing USB-A even on Pro devices is up there. Not migrating iPhones and iPads to USB-C at the same time as going “all in” on it for laptops. The touchbar. The puck mouse. Examples abound. [edit] oh man, cases that slightly zap you with electricity under certain circumstances. Cases with edges a little too sharp because that’s the aesthetic they wanted. “Holding it wrong”. I continue to regard the loss of the home button as a huge usability regression. Cables that fray very quickly if repeatedly placed under strain, because they wanted them to be very thin. There are so many examples of actual problems with Apple stuff. [EDIT EDIT] OMG those very dumb first-gen pencils with the easily-breakable male port and the dumb, highly-losable cap for it. And you needed an also-highly-losable tiny adapter if you wanted to charge it with, you know, a charging cable.
threeseed 3y ago
I think you should watch the teardown [1]. The aluminium is about 2mm thick and also helps to dissipate heat. Replacing it with plastic would save you a few grams for a hotter unit. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Apple_Vision_Pro https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Apple_Vision_Pro

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>This thing is heavier than a Quest 3 and doesn't even have a battery in it. Apple has almost always been more form over function. Premium materials and slim, shiny looks over ergonomics. See the Apple mouse. I think the last product Apple ever made that cared about ergonomics was the sunflower iMac G4, the best Mac Apple ever released, then the downfall started where everything needed to be unnecessarily thin and lacking in any adjustments for the sake of thinness and minimalism that look good in a white sterile showroom but suck at daily usage.

vundercind 3y ago
The Apple mouse seemed dumb until I actually tried one. It was pretty good and the thing everyone complains about wasn’t a problem at all.
- grugagag 3y ago
  Is that the mouse that had a charging port right underneath so you couldn’t possibly charge while using?
  - vundercind 3y ago
    Yes. I also thought that was dumb. Then I used one for several months and it caused problems exactly zero times, and probably did lead to me not using it plugged-in all the time out of habit developed from other wireless accessories, so I re-assessed.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  It's not a problem that it's unusable when the battery is flat? Do you mean "I'm willing to inconvenience myself in order to use this product"?
  - suction 3y ago
    [dead]
  - vundercind 3y ago
    It wasn’t inconvenient because you could get a day’s worth of charge, from dead battery, in about ten minutes and it lasted many days between full charges. I used one for several months and never once was it any amount of problem or inconvenience. Time lost because I couldn’t use the mouse when I needed to was zero. Meanwhile, I probably would have left it plugged in all the time if not for that, out of battery-anxiety from using crappy rechargeable accessories that charge slowly and discharge fast. I didn’t need to be willing to inconvenience myself because it was never inconvenient.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      OK, so not everyone remembers to plug it in, and when you are under pressure 10 minutes might just be a disaster, or at least very annoying. It's fine if it works for you, but more broadly it's not very practical, and the reason for that is the long running Apple disease of form over function.
      - vundercind 3y ago
        It’s a bad example because it’s really not a problem. There exist good examples. When people pick that one to call out it’s a good sign they haven’t used much Apple hardware (or they’d pick a better one)
        dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        I bought my first Mac in 1986 and kept on buying until about 2010 when the product quality turned to shit. I've used actual good Apple hardware but some who live in the current Apple ghetto have never had the experience. They created many great machines in that time but also misguided junk. In my view the "magic" mouse falls into the later category. But maybe try something other than an ad hominem or "my n=1 survey shows..." argument next time to be more convincing.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  That's why most Mac users use Logitech mice?
  - vundercind 3y ago
    For the real buttons. I do that too, solely because I also use that mouse for gaming. Apple mouse would be better otherwise, but I don’t want two mice. Or sometimes people find a larger shape more ergonomic. Depends on the person and how they mouse, I think. I had one of the wireless Apple mice at work for a while and it was a really good mouse. The “dumb” port (I agreed with this assessment before using one!) was never, ever any problem at all. At home, I use Logitech, because I also game with it and am willing to compromise a (very) little on its suitability for work to not have multiple mice.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      We get you love it but your opinion is not shared by the majority.
      - vundercind 3y ago
        I don’t love it, it was just an entirely fine mouse and the “dumb” thing wasn’t an actual problem. I tend to assume people who use that as their go-to example of Apple letting aesthetics beat function have just never used one and are guessing. You want dumb design shit from Apple that’s actually inconvenient, losing USB-A even on Pro devices is up there. Not migrating iPhones and iPads to USB-C at the same time as going “all in” on it for laptops. The touchbar. The puck mouse. Examples abound. [edit] oh man, cases that slightly zap you with electricity under certain circumstances. Cases with edges a little too sharp because that’s the aesthetic they wanted. “Holding it wrong”. I continue to regard the loss of the home button as a huge usability regression. Cables that fray very quickly if repeatedly placed under strain, because they wanted them to be very thin. There are so many examples of actual problems with Apple stuff. [EDIT EDIT] OMG those very dumb first-gen pencils with the easily-breakable male port and the dumb, highly-losable cap for it. And you needed an also-highly-losable tiny adapter if you wanted to charge it with, you know, a charging cable.

threeseed 3y ago

I think you should watch the teardown [1]. The aluminium is about 2mm thick and also helps to dissipate heat. Replacing it with plastic would save you a few grams for a hotter unit. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Apple_Vision_Pro https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Apple_Vision_Pro