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I can see your point, but prefer to stick to rock-solid, unimpeachible arguments (Apple Music for iOS, Google Chrome/Play Store for Android). I shy away from Sa

by xethos 3y ago

I can see your point, but prefer to stick to rock-solid, unimpeachible arguments (Apple Music for iOS, Google Chrome/Play Store for Android). I shy away from Safari/iOS because Apple is using iOS' dominance (in operating systems) to gain an advantage in web browsers - but that browser is only available for iOS and MacOS. They've steered very clear of using iOS' dominance to push for browser dominance in every other operating system not owned by them. Going so far as to not even release a client leaves them with a relatively safe defence of only pushing for deep system integration with their own products, as opposed to market dominance in web browsers (as they're likely to be accused of).

leereeves 3y ago
Do you think Microsoft would have been safe if they had never released IE for Macs?
- xethos 3y ago
  I certainly think they would have been safer. Bear in mind though, at the time, Windows had 97% of the desktop market [0]. This wasn't a corporation with ~50% of the market (like Android in the US) trying to muscle in, this was a company with their hooks so deep in personal computers that any product they pushed became a de-facto standard that everyone was expected to at least have access to, if not use. Hell, the most dominant companies on the planet today, including the literal trillion dollar ones, do not have that kind of market penetration. Google search, the closest I can think of, is still <92% [1]. And it's not that I think holding 92% of a market is good. Nor do I think Apple should get away with only allowing re-skins instead of real browser engines. But percentages are room to quibble, and re-skins can be spun as integration or security. Whenever Apple's gilded cage comes up, there's backlash, whataboutism, and apologists - so as we start to force interop, openness, and more pro-consumer behavior, I stick to the unimpeachable arguments. Even if it's just till we break the inertia and get the ball rolling. I think you're right, and you make an excellent point. But first I want to convince even the Apple die-hards that this level of control is fucked up, because then we can all agree that something has to change. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/?sh=5c094eec51cf https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsof... [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share

by xethos 3y ago

leereeves 3y ago

Do you think Microsoft would have been safe if they had never released IE for Macs?

xethos 3y ago
I certainly think they would have been safer. Bear in mind though, at the time, Windows had 97% of the desktop market [0]. This wasn't a corporation with ~50% of the market (like Android in the US) trying to muscle in, this was a company with their hooks so deep in personal computers that any product they pushed became a de-facto standard that everyone was expected to at least have access to, if not use. Hell, the most dominant companies on the planet today, including the literal trillion dollar ones, do not have that kind of market penetration. Google search, the closest I can think of, is still <92% [1]. And it's not that I think holding 92% of a market is good. Nor do I think Apple should get away with only allowing re-skins instead of real browser engines. But percentages are room to quibble, and re-skins can be spun as integration or security. Whenever Apple's gilded cage comes up, there's backlash, whataboutism, and apologists - so as we start to force interop, openness, and more pro-consumer behavior, I stick to the unimpeachable arguments. Even if it's just till we break the inertia and get the ball rolling. I think you're right, and you make an excellent point. But first I want to convince even the Apple die-hards that this level of control is fucked up, because then we can all agree that something has to change. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsofts-market-share-drops-from-97-to-20-in-just-over-a-decade/?sh=5c094eec51cf https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/microsof... [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share