3 ms·

And then 8 people show up at a city council meeting and set you on a path of financial ruin. The whole point of american government is that it shouldnt interfer

And then 8 people show up at a city council meeting and set you on a path of financial ruin. The whole point of american government is that it shouldnt interfere with your life.

Apocryphon 3y ago
Local homeowners are an incredibly powerful bloc and have successfully thwarted development and upzoning in myriads of communities. The idea of “outside agitators” coming in and having the power to change your community is a specious, pernicious myth. It also undercuts the principles of American democracy. If you want things to stay exactly the way they are, then you must fight for it, you cannot expect others to do it for you.
- kbolino 3y ago
  > The idea of “outside agitators” coming in and having the power to change your community is a specious, pernicious myth. Pessimistically, one could view the missions of HFH and and many HUD programs (esp. FHA) as exactly that. Every house built, bought, or renovated can affect change, and external assistance can tilt the changes. Ditto big developers coming in to "revitalize" urban areas. However, while I would agree that local government is still generally pretty answerable to local voters, state and federal grants and other "external" sources of money can and do alter their priorities. Changing demographics, esp. simple population growth, can attenuate or amplify various voting blocs over time. Most change happens very slowly at first, but then suddenly accelerates. No matter your politics, I think there are good examples of this. Whether it be poorer neighborhoods that suddenly get gentrified after decades of stability, pricing out families who've lived there for generations, or richer neighborhoods that suddenly get a low-cost complex built nearby to qualify for a grant or comply with a DOJ "consent agreement", the character of a neighborhood _can_ change quickly even if it generally _doesn't_. In these situations, the most that participating in local government will get you is advance warning, which is a lot less useful for the poorer example than the richer one.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    That is a much more nuanced and even-handed description of the state of things than a simplistic “housing activists have invaded my council meeting” bogeyman.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  Sorry you lost me at "american democracy".
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    It is simply an echo of “the whole point of american government is […].” Did you lose yourself too while writing your own comment?
    - Geisterde 3y ago
      No, as in the pernicious myth is that american democracy is a thing, that it ever existed, that it ever will exist, and/or that such a thing would be desirable.
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.
        Geisterde 3y ago
        Its a political topic, and you have taken an ideological stance towards it. If you want to say this topic shouldnt be on hacker news, I agree with you. Conversely, if you cant take the heat then get out of the kitchen.
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        Avowing extremist positions is indulging in trolling and unsubstantiative. It is also (con)ceding your position as indefensible and not worth talking about.
        Geisterde 3y ago
        [flagged]

And then 8 people show up at a city council meeting and set you on a path of financial ruin. The whole point of american government is that it shouldnt interfere with your life.

Apocryphon 3y ago

Local homeowners are an incredibly powerful bloc and have successfully thwarted development and upzoning in myriads of communities. The idea of “outside agitators” coming in and having the power to change your community is a specious, pernicious myth. It also undercuts the principles of American democracy. If you want things to stay exactly the way they are, then you must fight for it, you cannot expect others to do it for you.

kbolino 3y ago
> The idea of “outside agitators” coming in and having the power to change your community is a specious, pernicious myth. Pessimistically, one could view the missions of HFH and and many HUD programs (esp. FHA) as exactly that. Every house built, bought, or renovated can affect change, and external assistance can tilt the changes. Ditto big developers coming in to "revitalize" urban areas. However, while I would agree that local government is still generally pretty answerable to local voters, state and federal grants and other "external" sources of money can and do alter their priorities. Changing demographics, esp. simple population growth, can attenuate or amplify various voting blocs over time. Most change happens very slowly at first, but then suddenly accelerates. No matter your politics, I think there are good examples of this. Whether it be poorer neighborhoods that suddenly get gentrified after decades of stability, pricing out families who've lived there for generations, or richer neighborhoods that suddenly get a low-cost complex built nearby to qualify for a grant or comply with a DOJ "consent agreement", the character of a neighborhood _can_ change quickly even if it generally _doesn't_. In these situations, the most that participating in local government will get you is advance warning, which is a lot less useful for the poorer example than the richer one.
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  That is a much more nuanced and even-handed description of the state of things than a simplistic “housing activists have invaded my council meeting” bogeyman.
Geisterde 3y ago
Sorry you lost me at "american democracy".
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  It is simply an echo of “the whole point of american government is […].” Did you lose yourself too while writing your own comment?
  - Geisterde 3y ago
    No, as in the pernicious myth is that american democracy is a thing, that it ever existed, that it ever will exist, and/or that such a thing would be desirable.
    - Apocryphon 3y ago
      > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.
      - Geisterde 3y ago
        Its a political topic, and you have taken an ideological stance towards it. If you want to say this topic shouldnt be on hacker news, I agree with you. Conversely, if you cant take the heat then get out of the kitchen.
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        Avowing extremist positions is indulging in trolling and unsubstantiative. It is also (con)ceding your position as indefensible and not worth talking about.
        Geisterde 3y ago
        [flagged]