3 ms·

I lived without a car in SF for years. You can certainly get by, especially with e.g. getaround. But there are many valid uses for having a car in the city, eve

I lived without a car in SF for years. You can certainly get by, especially with e.g. getaround. But there are many valid uses for having a car in the city, even if you live by transit. The primary one is that not everyone’s work will be transit accessible. Mandated minimums for parking are stupid, but so are mandated maximums. This is one of those cases where the invisible hand will approximate an alright solution (and I say that as someone who finds market efficiency arguments generally uncompelling). Even along transit lines, some developers may choose to add extra parking as a unique value proposition to those who need it.

whimsicalism 3y ago
contra this - I tried this for a while and while getting around much of SF is fine, leaving the city basically became too much work to be worth it. there are also certain neighborhoods (especially in the northwest and southeast) that basically become inaccessible getaround is quite expensive tbh, it was much better to just have a relationship with an existing car rental that you could just muni to and pick up - difference between ~$40 and ~$100
jon_richards 3y ago
There’s a very real possibility it’s a tragedy of the commons. Each individual wants to be near public transit, but they also want a car to supplement weekend trips and such. But once everyone gets a car, ridership falls and the public transit disappears.
- shiroiushi 3y ago
  Only if people actually use those cars for trips they could use public transit for. If there's no convenient parking at their destination, they'll leave the car at home. Here in Tokyo, lots of people have cars that just stay parked at home most of the time, only used for weekend trips. They don't use them for normal stuff because 1) public transit is generally convenient and 2) there's no convenient (or affordable) parking in most parts of the city. The key to all of this is parking. Parking takes of a LOT of space in a city. Here, there's no requirements about parking: you can build as much or as little as you like. Land is highly valuable, so land owners generally only allocate as much land to parking as makes sense to them economically. So apartments don't have that much (and those spaces cost a lot), and most businesses don't have any. There are some privately-owned parking lots/garages, but they cost a small fortune, and might not be that close to your destination anyway. If you want to buy a building in a dense area, tear it down, and build a parking, lot, you're free to do so, but it would usually be a stupid way to spend your money, so it doesn't happen.

whimsicalism 3y ago

contra this - I tried this for a while and while getting around much of SF is fine, leaving the city basically became too much work to be worth it. there are also certain neighborhoods (especially in the northwest and southeast) that basically become inaccessible getaround is quite expensive tbh, it was much better to just have a relationship with an existing car rental that you could just muni to and pick up - difference between ~$40 and ~$100

jon_richards 3y ago

There’s a very real possibility it’s a tragedy of the commons. Each individual wants to be near public transit, but they also want a car to supplement weekend trips and such. But once everyone gets a car, ridership falls and the public transit disappears.

shiroiushi 3y ago
Only if people actually use those cars for trips they could use public transit for. If there's no convenient parking at their destination, they'll leave the car at home. Here in Tokyo, lots of people have cars that just stay parked at home most of the time, only used for weekend trips. They don't use them for normal stuff because 1) public transit is generally convenient and 2) there's no convenient (or affordable) parking in most parts of the city. The key to all of this is parking. Parking takes of a LOT of space in a city. Here, there's no requirements about parking: you can build as much or as little as you like. Land is highly valuable, so land owners generally only allocate as much land to parking as makes sense to them economically. So apartments don't have that much (and those spaces cost a lot), and most businesses don't have any. There are some privately-owned parking lots/garages, but they cost a small fortune, and might not be that close to your destination anyway. If you want to buy a building in a dense area, tear it down, and build a parking, lot, you're free to do so, but it would usually be a stupid way to spend your money, so it doesn't happen.