4 ms·

Rust is going to kill LFS

horeszko 3y ago
LFS is Linux from Scratch right? (https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/index.html https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/index.html) What are the implications of using Rust on building Linux?
- rekado 3y ago
  The Rust bootstrapping story is ugly. https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2018/bootstrapping-rust/ https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2018/bootstrapping-rust/
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    LFS does not need to do all of that. LFS already uses the host computer's C compiler, so it seems just as reasonable to also use the host computer's rust compiler.
    - MuffinFlavored 3y ago
      Doesn't part of the Rust compliation chain end up using `cc` anyway eventually for like, linking or something? That might not apply at a "system's" level but I'm guessing in the massive Linux compilation job with module support you're making a bunch of object files with exported symbols?
      - charcircuit 3y ago
        The Linux kernel's build system uses rustc only for making object files.
  - legobmw99 3y ago
    That honestly doesn’t seem that horrible - particularly compared to some of the nigh-on-impossible tasks like bootstrapping GHC (For the curious) https://elephly.net/posts/2017-01-09-bootstrapping-haskell-part-1.html https://elephly.net/posts/2017-01-09-bootstrapping-haskell-p...
    - rekado 3y ago
      That's my blog post! Yes, the GHC story is also terrible (and just a tad worse than the rust story). The GHC problem is worse largely because the origins of GHC are murky. While it's still possible to get copies of the early GHC versions through the Internet Archive, the code lives firmly in the 1990s and assumes that you have access to long lost Haskell compilers. Turns out that all these Haskell compilers (with the exception of Hugs) have the same kind of problems that GHC has --- only worse because they are even older, depend on binaries of unreleased previous versions, and are really difficult to build with tools from the last two decades.
ta8645 3y ago
Surely LFS will survive? Might need to update a few steps is all.
- twosdai 3y ago
  Change? Impossible. This is software after all. It never changes. /s
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
1letterunixname 3y ago
Explain because I don't see that happening.

LFS is Linux from Scratch right? (https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/index.html https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/index.html) What are the implications of using Rust on building Linux?

rekado 3y ago
The Rust bootstrapping story is ugly. https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2018/bootstrapping-rust/ https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2018/bootstrapping-rust/
- charcircuit 3y ago
  LFS does not need to do all of that. LFS already uses the host computer's C compiler, so it seems just as reasonable to also use the host computer's rust compiler.
  - MuffinFlavored 3y ago
    Doesn't part of the Rust compliation chain end up using `cc` anyway eventually for like, linking or something? That might not apply at a "system's" level but I'm guessing in the massive Linux compilation job with module support you're making a bunch of object files with exported symbols?
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      The Linux kernel's build system uses rustc only for making object files.
- legobmw99 3y ago
  That honestly doesn’t seem that horrible - particularly compared to some of the nigh-on-impossible tasks like bootstrapping GHC (For the curious) https://elephly.net/posts/2017-01-09-bootstrapping-haskell-part-1.html https://elephly.net/posts/2017-01-09-bootstrapping-haskell-p...
  - rekado 3y ago
    That's my blog post! Yes, the GHC story is also terrible (and just a tad worse than the rust story). The GHC problem is worse largely because the origins of GHC are murky. While it's still possible to get copies of the early GHC versions through the Internet Archive, the code lives firmly in the 1990s and assumes that you have access to long lost Haskell compilers. Turns out that all these Haskell compilers (with the exception of Hugs) have the same kind of problems that GHC has --- only worse because they are even older, depend on binaries of unreleased previous versions, and are really difficult to build with tools from the last two decades.

ta8645 3y ago

Surely LFS will survive? Might need to update a few steps is all.

twosdai 3y ago
Change? Impossible. This is software after all. It never changes. /s

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

1letterunixname 3y ago

Explain because I don't see that happening.