3 ms·

I mean, every business is anti-competitive. The only time the authorities step in is when they dominate markets to a degree where competition no longer function

I mean, every business is anti-competitive. The only time the authorities step in is when they dominate markets to a degree where competition no longer functions. iOS market share is strongest in the states I believe at 57%, which is certainly high but not even remotely approaching a monopoly.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>iOS market share is strongest in the states I believe at 57%, which is certainly high but not even remotely approaching a monopoly. Ackchyually you don't need to be a monopoly to warp the whole market in your favor. Windows was a monopoly back in the day with ~95% market share, but users could easily install any other apps and any other browser besides IE. The issue was many users stuck with IE because it was the default, but Microsoft wasn't blocking them from installing other browsers than IE or other apps not sold through their channels. Meanwhile, Apple might have only 57%-60% market share instead of ~95%, but unlike Microsoft, it's actively blocking users form installing any other browser that's not Safari based and any app that's not on the AppStore, therefore doing even more damage than Microsoft was doing back in the days. And speaking of iPhone market share, despite being it 57%-60% of the US right now, it's also the most wealthy and influential of the market, and looking at the demographics, it's at 87% amongst US teens, so it's safe to assume those teens will stick to iPhone when they grow up due to inertia and network effects, and then iOS market share will be close to 90%, therefore a guaranteed monopoly.
- TimPC 3y ago
  The fact that the most popular option in a demographic where someone else pays for the phone is the most expensive option says almost nothing about what those users will do when they have to spend their own money on an option. I highly doubt 87% of the population will be buying a luxury brand with their own money. Convincing mommy and daddy it’s socially isolating to be on Android sure. But their own money in their 20s I doubt it.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    > I highly doubt 87% of the population will be buying a luxury brand with their own money. You're making it sound like they're Lamborghinis or Patek watches. Maybe in developing countries iPhone is a luxury brand, but in no way is it in any western developed countries, especially the US, the wealthiest of them all. Yes they're expensive as in that's a lot of money compared to a 600 Euro Pixel 8 or a 350 Euro Samsung A54 which do more or less the same shit as an iPhone does, but they're not unaffordably expensive in order to be a luxury good. >But their own money in their 20s I doubt it. Credit, installments and carrier plans, make it that anyone can afford an iPhone. I live in a central EU country where average income is less than the US, and even the pizza delivery courier here can get an iPhone. Let's do some napkin math: The iPhone 15 Pro is ~1200 Euros with tax here. A full time supermarket "wagie" with no education takes home nearly 1800 Euros per month after taxes. Subtract 600 Euros rent, 400 for eating, 200 for utilities and bills, and you're left with about 600 a month to spend as you please. So you can buy the latest iPhone after saving for 2 months, or instantly by walking in to any carrier shop and signing a 3 year contract for a plan which you need anyway. How is that "luxury"? Yes I know, this lifestyle is probably luxury compared to how average people live in some nations from Africa, Asia, LATAM and Middle East, but definitely not in the developed west. Otherwise Apple wouldn't be selling them by the boatlaod.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  > Meanwhile, Apple might have only 57%-60% market share instead of ~95%, but unlike Microsoft, it's actively blocking users form installing any other browser that's not Safari based and any app that's not on the AppStore, therefore doing even more damage than Microsoft was doing back in the days. Okay so like: humor me. What is the damage incurred by the user's inability to install, for example, a true Firefox on iOS that uses their Quantum engine? I'll fully cosign that iOS' Safari has quirks that make it kind of annoying, very occasionally, like once every few months I'll find something that it does in a bizarre way that others don't. But I swear every time the topic of iOS' dominance comes up, there is a detachment of users out there who are simply furious that they can't install a web browser that doesn't use Apple's WebKit on an iOS device and I just... I do not get it. At the absolute worst I have never given even 10% of the shit required to where I would upend all my stored passwords and whatnot for the ability to even use a different WebKit based browser. Now, granted, if this was the situation on the Mac, oh hell yes, I would absolutely be right there with everyone else and grabbing my own pitchfork. But on my phone? On my tablet? I dunno, am I weird for just not really caring?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    It's not directly affecting you the user, it's affecting the market of app and web developer which have no choice but to dance to Apple's tune as they control a large chuck of a very lucrative market. Why should you, the user, care? For the same reason users care when Micros ft was a monopoly on desktop.
    - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
      How is that different than web developers being required to dance to the tune of basically every major browser? They all have little oddities that have to be taken into account, speaking as someone who has done quite a bit of web development, every major browser has it's deviations from the standard, intentional and often otherwise, that require little tweaks to one's code. And to be totally honest with you, a lot of Safari iOS's quirks are unambiguously good, pro-privacy practices that frustrate the shit out of surveillance marketing firms and I quite hope Apple keeps it up.
jwells89 3y ago
Surprisingly, iOS is a bit more popular in Japan than it is in the US, where it has ~68% marketshare. That market usually favors local manufacturers (Sony among other local companies still make Android phones), but that for some reason doesn’t apply in this case. Still not a monopoly though.
ameister14 3y ago
>every business is anti-competitive That's not actually true. Every business is competitive, but not every business engages in anti-competitive behavior.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>iOS market share is strongest in the states I believe at 57%, which is certainly high but not even remotely approaching a monopoly. Ackchyually you don't need to be a monopoly to warp the whole market in your favor. Windows was a monopoly back in the day with ~95% market share, but users could easily install any other apps and any other browser besides IE. The issue was many users stuck with IE because it was the default, but Microsoft wasn't blocking them from installing other browsers than IE or other apps not sold through their channels. Meanwhile, Apple might have only 57%-60% market share instead of ~95%, but unlike Microsoft, it's actively blocking users form installing any other browser that's not Safari based and any app that's not on the AppStore, therefore doing even more damage than Microsoft was doing back in the days. And speaking of iPhone market share, despite being it 57%-60% of the US right now, it's also the most wealthy and influential of the market, and looking at the demographics, it's at 87% amongst US teens, so it's safe to assume those teens will stick to iPhone when they grow up due to inertia and network effects, and then iOS market share will be close to 90%, therefore a guaranteed monopoly.

TimPC 3y ago
The fact that the most popular option in a demographic where someone else pays for the phone is the most expensive option says almost nothing about what those users will do when they have to spend their own money on an option. I highly doubt 87% of the population will be buying a luxury brand with their own money. Convincing mommy and daddy it’s socially isolating to be on Android sure. But their own money in their 20s I doubt it.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  > I highly doubt 87% of the population will be buying a luxury brand with their own money. You're making it sound like they're Lamborghinis or Patek watches. Maybe in developing countries iPhone is a luxury brand, but in no way is it in any western developed countries, especially the US, the wealthiest of them all. Yes they're expensive as in that's a lot of money compared to a 600 Euro Pixel 8 or a 350 Euro Samsung A54 which do more or less the same shit as an iPhone does, but they're not unaffordably expensive in order to be a luxury good. >But their own money in their 20s I doubt it. Credit, installments and carrier plans, make it that anyone can afford an iPhone. I live in a central EU country where average income is less than the US, and even the pizza delivery courier here can get an iPhone. Let's do some napkin math: The iPhone 15 Pro is ~1200 Euros with tax here. A full time supermarket "wagie" with no education takes home nearly 1800 Euros per month after taxes. Subtract 600 Euros rent, 400 for eating, 200 for utilities and bills, and you're left with about 600 a month to spend as you please. So you can buy the latest iPhone after saving for 2 months, or instantly by walking in to any carrier shop and signing a 3 year contract for a plan which you need anyway. How is that "luxury"? Yes I know, this lifestyle is probably luxury compared to how average people live in some nations from Africa, Asia, LATAM and Middle East, but definitely not in the developed west. Otherwise Apple wouldn't be selling them by the boatlaod.
ToucanLoucan 3y ago
> Meanwhile, Apple might have only 57%-60% market share instead of ~95%, but unlike Microsoft, it's actively blocking users form installing any other browser that's not Safari based and any app that's not on the AppStore, therefore doing even more damage than Microsoft was doing back in the days. Okay so like: humor me. What is the damage incurred by the user's inability to install, for example, a true Firefox on iOS that uses their Quantum engine? I'll fully cosign that iOS' Safari has quirks that make it kind of annoying, very occasionally, like once every few months I'll find something that it does in a bizarre way that others don't. But I swear every time the topic of iOS' dominance comes up, there is a detachment of users out there who are simply furious that they can't install a web browser that doesn't use Apple's WebKit on an iOS device and I just... I do not get it. At the absolute worst I have never given even 10% of the shit required to where I would upend all my stored passwords and whatnot for the ability to even use a different WebKit based browser. Now, granted, if this was the situation on the Mac, oh hell yes, I would absolutely be right there with everyone else and grabbing my own pitchfork. But on my phone? On my tablet? I dunno, am I weird for just not really caring?
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  It's not directly affecting you the user, it's affecting the market of app and web developer which have no choice but to dance to Apple's tune as they control a large chuck of a very lucrative market. Why should you, the user, care? For the same reason users care when Micros ft was a monopoly on desktop.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    How is that different than web developers being required to dance to the tune of basically every major browser? They all have little oddities that have to be taken into account, speaking as someone who has done quite a bit of web development, every major browser has it's deviations from the standard, intentional and often otherwise, that require little tweaks to one's code. And to be totally honest with you, a lot of Safari iOS's quirks are unambiguously good, pro-privacy practices that frustrate the shit out of surveillance marketing firms and I quite hope Apple keeps it up.

jwells89 3y ago

Surprisingly, iOS is a bit more popular in Japan than it is in the US, where it has ~68% marketshare. That market usually favors local manufacturers (Sony among other local companies still make Android phones), but that for some reason doesn’t apply in this case. Still not a monopoly though.

ameister14 3y ago

>every business is anti-competitive That's not actually true. Every business is competitive, but not every business engages in anti-competitive behavior.