2 ms·

I want my mother to have as safe a phone as possible with a bare minimum of ways she can accidentally get hacked. Ideally with a gatekeeper between her and anyt

by roenxi 3y ago

I want my mother to have as safe a phone as possible with a bare minimum of ways she can accidentally get hacked. Ideally with a gatekeeper between her and anything she is going to install that has permission to use phone features; like cameras. She would very much concur, insofar as she understands the issues. She's using an iPhone specifically because Apple doesn't go for shenanigans like multiple ways to get apps on the phone. The point is to have an App store and funnel everything through it. There is enough sensitive stuff on a phone that I'm not even sure running a full web browser is a good idea for her. "Limited capability" really is the name of the game here. It isn't just we don't care because Apple doesn't support it. We are in fact grateful to Apple for not supporting it. This is value-add by Apple. The "App for Everything" model of interacting with iPhones is/was a brief golden age for unsophisticated users where Apple was more than earning its commission. Android phones are technically fine, if people wanted this sort of thing they would go buy Android.

eptcyka 3y ago
Having an app for everything is orthogonal to supporting web apps in Safari. Apple does not need volunteer PR.
pxoe 3y ago
why should everyone else obide by that level of strictness of control and limitations, particularly ones that are brought upon by people who can't really use their phone well? put it in a parental control mode, have that limit functionality, instead of being like 'well...people who can't use their phones, wouldn't be able to use those features - so they need to go'. there should be a way to make a phone secure (including via optionally disabling features - and giving those controls to the user, instead of being at whim and will of manufacturer), without giving up that functionality for literally everybody. and they kinda did make something like that, didn't they tout their "senior mode" thing recently? assistive access. there's the solution. so put their phone into a "more secure" assistive access mode, or parental control mode with limited apps, and leave everybody else who actually knows how to do things to their own devices. bottom line, even without sideloading or whatever, app store still exists, as does internet, browsers, voice calls (the regular phone ones) and sms. all run a possibility of getting scammed any way. if you're so concerned, might as well opt for a dumb phone, or no phone at all.
- roenxi 3y ago
  > why should everyone else... They shouldn't. Everyone should buy the phone that best suits their needs. That might be an Android phone or a whatever. Windows maybe. They're all good phones. The issue is, for my family that is iPhones and people like Mr. Sweeney are trying to wheedle the EU into making iPhones worse for iPhone buyers. We don't need regulators trying to help by making iPhones worse. If you don't like what iPhones do, don't buy one. I think literally every manufacturer in the phone market has figured out how to make a great phone that looks and acts like an iPhone with minor differences.
  - pxoe 3y ago
    and iphone isn't that phone. with app store and browser app access, it wouldn't suit needs of somebody who might get "hacked" or scammed or just believe things and press a wrong button. not in its regular state anyway, not without parental controls or accessibility mode. not letting sideloading in doesn't mean that app store doesn't have its scammy apps with in-app purchases and whatever, and not allowing pwas doesn't mean that those exact same web apps aren't available via safari as a website. if those are the kinds of things, installing apps and going to websites, things that are very much available on a regular iphone, that are being deemed unsafe for somebody, an iphone is not a good fit for them.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Not to mention, malware like Pegasus has proven that you can use Apple's default software as a malware delivery mechanism. Anyone that configures iMessage to working condition was vulnerable to their attack, not just sideloaders or browser modders.
  - mmcnl 3y ago
    That is because Apple is abusing the power they have as a gatekeeper. That's the problem with centralized power: shift all power to one central place and suddenly the power gets abused.
mmcnl 3y ago
Would you say this applies to macOS too? And why or why not?
- roenxi 3y ago
  The argument applies. I wouldn't use a computer with an app store though; I understand computers a lot better than phones.

by roenxi 3y ago

eptcyka 3y ago

Having an app for everything is orthogonal to supporting web apps in Safari. Apple does not need volunteer PR.

pxoe 3y ago

why should everyone else obide by that level of strictness of control and limitations, particularly ones that are brought upon by people who can't really use their phone well? put it in a parental control mode, have that limit functionality, instead of being like 'well...people who can't use their phones, wouldn't be able to use those features - so they need to go'. there should be a way to make a phone secure (including via optionally disabling features - and giving those controls to the user, instead of being at whim and will of manufacturer), without giving up that functionality for literally everybody. and they kinda did make something like that, didn't they tout their "senior mode" thing recently? assistive access. there's the solution. so put their phone into a "more secure" assistive access mode, or parental control mode with limited apps, and leave everybody else who actually knows how to do things to their own devices. bottom line, even without sideloading or whatever, app store still exists, as does internet, browsers, voice calls (the regular phone ones) and sms. all run a possibility of getting scammed any way. if you're so concerned, might as well opt for a dumb phone, or no phone at all.

roenxi 3y ago
> why should everyone else... They shouldn't. Everyone should buy the phone that best suits their needs. That might be an Android phone or a whatever. Windows maybe. They're all good phones. The issue is, for my family that is iPhones and people like Mr. Sweeney are trying to wheedle the EU into making iPhones worse for iPhone buyers. We don't need regulators trying to help by making iPhones worse. If you don't like what iPhones do, don't buy one. I think literally every manufacturer in the phone market has figured out how to make a great phone that looks and acts like an iPhone with minor differences.
- pxoe 3y ago
  and iphone isn't that phone. with app store and browser app access, it wouldn't suit needs of somebody who might get "hacked" or scammed or just believe things and press a wrong button. not in its regular state anyway, not without parental controls or accessibility mode. not letting sideloading in doesn't mean that app store doesn't have its scammy apps with in-app purchases and whatever, and not allowing pwas doesn't mean that those exact same web apps aren't available via safari as a website. if those are the kinds of things, installing apps and going to websites, things that are very much available on a regular iphone, that are being deemed unsafe for somebody, an iphone is not a good fit for them.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Not to mention, malware like Pegasus has proven that you can use Apple's default software as a malware delivery mechanism. Anyone that configures iMessage to working condition was vulnerable to their attack, not just sideloaders or browser modders.
- mmcnl 3y ago
  That is because Apple is abusing the power they have as a gatekeeper. That's the problem with centralized power: shift all power to one central place and suddenly the power gets abused.

mmcnl 3y ago

Would you say this applies to macOS too? And why or why not?

roenxi 3y ago
The argument applies. I wouldn't use a computer with an app store though; I understand computers a lot better than phones.