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People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, onl
by cybrox 3y ago
People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways".
How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cannot take 30% of every transaction).
- brandensilva 3y agoAgreed. I and many developers could make killer PWAs if the support was there. The web has been hindered too long from Apple and that needs to change to support healthy competition.
- camillomiller 3y agoNo people don't care because the world is wide and vast and people (99% of them) do not think like the average hacker news user. Maybe it would be helpful to think of people as persons with their own history that isn't automatically devalued to "part of a flock of gullible sheep" unless they care about your own values?
- curt15 3y agoDo you think there's a general lack of awareness or education these days about the world wide web? People who grew up with the internet couldn't get by without knowing the possibilities of websites and web browsers. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I view web apps through that lens -- if an "app" merely wraps a website or otherwise relies on internet connectivity for core functionality I'd rather just use a full-blooded web browser.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y agoWhy would anyone care? Techies love to speak as if this is a matter of “education”. The reality is that people quite rightfully just don’t care.
- ufocia 3y agoYes, except maybe there could be a user setting to disable showing of the browser chrome. I don't like wrapper bloatware, but would like to be able to see that the app is essentially a bookmark and have a possibility of troubleshooting it.
- throwaway11460 3y agoHow many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".
- cybrox 3y agoI'm not saying Android is a lot better. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39419057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39419057
- Gud 3y agoI don’t know much about Android, I haven’t used Android in more than a decade. But it seems Adblock would come out of the box in a user friendly mobile operating system. I’m guessing Google, Samsung, etc aren’t much better than Apple in this regard.
- anon373839 3y agoAndroid isn't exactly a control group in this context. A major appeal of web apps, apart from their freedom from gatekeeping, is that they're cross-platform. But a cross-platform technology is a lot less appealing to invest in when one of the major platforms barely supports / sabotages it.
- ufocia 3y agoMore than you think really. I have some apps on my devices that are clearly webviews, which is apparent when they crap out.
- throwaway11460 3y agoThat's not a PWA, it's actually proving that PWAs are not sufficient
- Kwpolska 3y agoI use one PWA, and it's working pretty well. One of my banks has an app that is just a web view (listed on the Play Store), and it's a bit janky at times.
- 3y ago
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y agoHow are Android web apps going? An argument based on a hypothetical is inherently weak.
- cybrox 3y agoI never claimed Google isn't doing something similar with the Play store. They might not choose to limit functionality as much but Android does not have first-class support for web apps either. Windows uses executables and msi's as programs and users know that these programs are first-class citizens. Almost nbody on mobile knows about apk's and ipa's. These systems were designed to inherently educate the user that software can only be installed via one place.
- kyriakos 3y agoI have 3 on my home screen right now. Not saying I can't replace them with regular apps but I see no reason since they work fine and do what they're supposed to.
- roenxi 3y agoI want my mother to have as safe a phone as possible with a bare minimum of ways she can accidentally get hacked. Ideally with a gatekeeper between her and anything she is going to install that has permission to use phone features; like cameras. She would very much concur, insofar as she understands the issues. She's using an iPhone specifically because Apple doesn't go for shenanigans like multiple ways to get apps on the phone. The point is to have an App store and funnel everything through it. There is enough sensitive stuff on a phone that I'm not even sure running a full web browser is a good idea for her. "Limited capability" really is the name of the game here. It isn't just we don't care because Apple doesn't support it. We are in fact grateful to Apple for not supporting it. This is value-add by Apple. The "App for Everything" model of interacting with iPhones is/was a brief golden age for unsophisticated users where Apple was more than earning its commission. Android phones are technically fine, if people wanted this sort of thing they would go buy Android.
- eptcyka 3y agoHaving an app for everything is orthogonal to supporting web apps in Safari. Apple does not need volunteer PR.
- pxoe 3y agowhy should everyone else obide by that level of strictness of control and limitations, particularly ones that are brought upon by people who can't really use their phone well? put it in a parental control mode, have that limit functionality, instead of being like 'well...people who can't use their phones, wouldn't be able to use those features - so they need to go'. there should be a way to make a phone secure (including via optionally disabling features - and giving those controls to the user, instead of being at whim and will of manufacturer), without giving up that functionality for literally everybody. and they kinda did make something like that, didn't they tout their "senior mode" thing recently? assistive access. there's the solution. so put their phone into a "more secure" assistive access mode, or parental control mode with limited apps, and leave everybody else who actually knows how to do things to their own devices. bottom line, even without sideloading or whatever, app store still exists, as does internet, browsers, voice calls (the regular phone ones) and sms. all run a possibility of getting scammed any way. if you're so concerned, might as well opt for a dumb phone, or no phone at all.
- Angostura 3y agoGo on. Explain as you would for a layperson the advantages of a webapp over a regular web page. I’ll go first - notifications. What else.