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I am not sure where you are going with this. Yes, we would all like this to go faster. Bureaucracy is slow. But at least the EU has strong consumer protection,

I am not sure where you are going with this. Yes, we would all like this to go faster. Bureaucracy is slow. But at least the EU has strong consumer protection, privacy, and anti-competitive laws and we all benefit from it (at least EU citizens).

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wslh 3y ago
No, bureacracy is accepted as slow and there are organizations who are responsible and are paid for improving this. This argument is not about the EU. People are accepting bureaucracies in a Kafkian way and in a time where there are no excuses. Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection?
- microtonal 3y ago
  Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection? You take one issue and try to nullify all consumer laws with it. First, cookie banners are not legal anymore. They should be a dialog where 'No' is the first and foremost option and 'Yes' (opt in to tracking) requires permission per type of tracking. IMO this is a large improvement over: don't even ask, just track users based on PII everywhere, which is the case pretty much everywhere outside the EU. The fact that you see banners everywhere is data hungriness of those websites. They could simply not track you by default and no banner would be needed. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a future iteration of the GDPR will forbid such banners and require no tracking to be the default. But leaving this specific points. There are many great consumer laws in the EU: * Your data bundle is valid in all EU countries. Before the EU intervened, providers would charge you through the nose for data outside your country. * A web shop in any EU country is required to deliver to any other EU country. You live in Germany, but see a phone at a Dutch web shop that is much cheaper? The Dutch web shop cannot refuse you service because you are in Germany. * You can return any online purchase within 14 days without justification (14 days after receiving the product). * There is a single Euro payment system (SEPA). How big this is, is hard to grasp if you are in a large country. But it was hard to transfer money between countries, let alone without incurring fees. Now you can transfer money to any account in the EU without fees using in a uniform way (IBAN account number). * Strong warranty laws. E.g. if a company does not solve an issue within a reasonable time, they are required to give you a full refund. I could go on and on, there are so many good examples where EU regulations improve day-to-day life.
  - wslh 3y ago
    I know Europe. Thank you. Never said that EU doesn't have consumer protection laws. I will illustrate my central point using the SEPA system you mentioned and forgetting the USA prehistoric finance platforms. SEPA was introduced in iterations in 2008, 2009, 2014, etc. The EU has the resource means to achieve this in a way that other countries (e.g. development or underdevelopment ones) couldn't do. Argentina, a super corrupt, infinite loop bureaucracy , and relatively weak country has implemented direct bank to bank transfer without fees (only taxes!) in 2001. This shows my point clearly. This was implemented in less than two years. Indeed around 1 year because they took one to work in the law. Comparing Argentina to the EU (in political terms) is, in general, completely unfair. I don't know you but I would be concerned as a taxpayer if I were living in the EU zone.
    - Ldorigo 3y ago
      It is indeed completely unfair as Argentina is a single country of 45M people while Europe has ~10x the population and consists of 27countries - the fact that international bank transfers took longer to implement than intranational ones in a single country is kind of irrelevant? Or are you saying that argentina implemented international bank transfers (... With whom?) In only one year?
      - wslh 3y ago
        Argentina implemented local bank to bank transfer without fees in less than one year. Not only saying that, I was a witness. I don't know how population size is relevant in this context. Instagram has 2.4b users. Please think that I am comparing a country light years from EU resources. I know SEPA includes many countries but even so the comparison is relevant.
        malermeister 3y ago
        Argentina is a single country. SEPA covers 27. How long do bank transfers from Argentina to, say... Colombia take? I honestly don't know, but I'm going to assume longer than they do between EU countries.
- hn_acker 3y ago
  > Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection? The EU did not require those cookie pop-ups. Websites could have used no cookie popups and let users go to the website settings (or an "allow cookies" checkbox in the top right corner of every normal page) to turn on cookies. Instead, websites added annoying cookie pop-ups to maliciously comply or added third-party cookie banners "on accident" because the not-lawyer website owners didn't realize that the GDPR didn't ask for cookie pop-ups.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wslh 3y ago

No, bureacracy is accepted as slow and there are organizations who are responsible and are paid for improving this. This argument is not about the EU. People are accepting bureaucracies in a Kafkian way and in a time where there are no excuses. Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection?

microtonal 3y ago
Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection? You take one issue and try to nullify all consumer laws with it. First, cookie banners are not legal anymore. They should be a dialog where 'No' is the first and foremost option and 'Yes' (opt in to tracking) requires permission per type of tracking. IMO this is a large improvement over: don't even ask, just track users based on PII everywhere, which is the case pretty much everywhere outside the EU. The fact that you see banners everywhere is data hungriness of those websites. They could simply not track you by default and no banner would be needed. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a future iteration of the GDPR will forbid such banners and require no tracking to be the default. But leaving this specific points. There are many great consumer laws in the EU: * Your data bundle is valid in all EU countries. Before the EU intervened, providers would charge you through the nose for data outside your country. * A web shop in any EU country is required to deliver to any other EU country. You live in Germany, but see a phone at a Dutch web shop that is much cheaper? The Dutch web shop cannot refuse you service because you are in Germany. * You can return any online purchase within 14 days without justification (14 days after receiving the product). * There is a single Euro payment system (SEPA). How big this is, is hard to grasp if you are in a large country. But it was hard to transfer money between countries, let alone without incurring fees. Now you can transfer money to any account in the EU without fees using in a uniform way (IBAN account number). * Strong warranty laws. E.g. if a company does not solve an issue within a reasonable time, they are required to give you a full refund. I could go on and on, there are so many good examples where EU regulations improve day-to-day life.
- wslh 3y ago
  I know Europe. Thank you. Never said that EU doesn't have consumer protection laws. I will illustrate my central point using the SEPA system you mentioned and forgetting the USA prehistoric finance platforms. SEPA was introduced in iterations in 2008, 2009, 2014, etc. The EU has the resource means to achieve this in a way that other countries (e.g. development or underdevelopment ones) couldn't do. Argentina, a super corrupt, infinite loop bureaucracy , and relatively weak country has implemented direct bank to bank transfer without fees (only taxes!) in 2001. This shows my point clearly. This was implemented in less than two years. Indeed around 1 year because they took one to work in the law. Comparing Argentina to the EU (in political terms) is, in general, completely unfair. I don't know you but I would be concerned as a taxpayer if I were living in the EU zone.
  - Ldorigo 3y ago
    It is indeed completely unfair as Argentina is a single country of 45M people while Europe has ~10x the population and consists of 27countries - the fact that international bank transfers took longer to implement than intranational ones in a single country is kind of irrelevant? Or are you saying that argentina implemented international bank transfers (... With whom?) In only one year?
    - wslh 3y ago
      Argentina implemented local bank to bank transfer without fees in less than one year. Not only saying that, I was a witness. I don't know how population size is relevant in this context. Instagram has 2.4b users. Please think that I am comparing a country light years from EU resources. I know SEPA includes many countries but even so the comparison is relevant.
      - malermeister 3y ago
        Argentina is a single country. SEPA covers 27. How long do bank transfers from Argentina to, say... Colombia take? I honestly don't know, but I'm going to assume longer than they do between EU countries.
hn_acker 3y ago
> Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection? The EU did not require those cookie pop-ups. Websites could have used no cookie popups and let users go to the website settings (or an "allow cookies" checkbox in the top right corner of every normal page) to turn on cookies. Instead, websites added annoying cookie pop-ups to maliciously comply or added third-party cookie banners "on accident" because the not-lawyer website owners didn't realize that the GDPR didn't ask for cookie pop-ups.