6 ms·

Mercury: Council and Parliament strike a deal to phase out mercury in the EU

50 points by manmal 3y ago

HPsquared 3y ago
Fluorescent lamps, in other words. Those are probably the most common mercury-containing item.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  While it does mention lamps, it looks like the main focus is dental amalgam -- including "abating" emissions from crematoria. It looks like the EU has already banned those for people under 15, but there are still a lot of people in the world walking around with amalgam fillings. One presumes the abatement process would involve removing any mercury-based fillings from the deceased before cremation occurred, but they don't explicitly say this.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- lupusreal 3y ago
  I miss mercury light switches...
- _trampeltier 3y ago
  At least in Switzerland, Fluorescent lamps are banned since summer 2023. https://www.bfe.admin.ch/bfe/en/home/efficiency/energy-labels-and-efficiency-requirements/lamps.html https://www.bfe.admin.ch/bfe/en/home/efficiency/energy-label...
- AndrewDucker 3y ago
  Dental amalgam is the biggest usage, as the article makes clear.
misnome 3y ago
First Pluto and now this? What next, Uranus?
- Luker88 3y ago
  Some EU countries have constitutions with war avoidance clauses, so my money is on Mars next
  - tekla 3y ago
    Obviously the best way to avoid war is to, checks notes, outlaw war.
    - jfoutz 3y ago
      I think the idea is, no attacking. Retaliation is fine.
Anotheroneagain 3y ago
[flagged]
- rice7th 3y ago
  what???
  - Anotheroneagain 3y ago
    It was banned based on practically no evidence, and it's essential for life.
    - joshgachnang 3y ago
      I'd love to see a source on your previous claims.
      - Anotheroneagain 3y ago
        For what claims? It is well documented to get metabolized, and used in the biochemistry of life. Its toxicity is a chimera of nebulous everchanging symptoms and unknown toxic doses.
        bigbillheck 3y ago
        Just like lead? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39087999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39087999
        Anotheroneagain 3y ago
        Yes, and a few others. Copper is the weirdest one, as its essentiality is widely accepted, autopsies show its reduced concentrations in dementia, yet it's regulated as a toxic metal anyway. The cause of this deception is a mystery to me.
    - rice7th 3y ago
weebull 3y ago
As a general philosophy, don't ban it, regulate the use of it. What if trace amount of mercury are needed for the next world changing technology? By precluding reasonable access you're ensuring that will be invented somewhere else. ..and yes, I realise "bans" are colloquisms for heavy regulation I tend to think of a ban as lazy regulation that only specifies the few small exceptions as opposed to detailed regulation that defines the areas where care needs to be exercised.
- frereubu 3y ago
  > What if trace amount of mercury are needed for the next world changing technology? Then they will legislate again. Laws aren't written in stone. (And even if they were, you can always get another stone).
- Anotheroneagain 3y ago
  [flagged]
- __m 3y ago
  There is no ban on using mercury in research or products that don’t have alternatives.
- perihelions 3y ago
  - "What if trace amount of mercury are needed for the next world changing technology?" HgCdTe is a critical semiconductor for long-wavelength infrared detectors, and has no equivalent substitute [0]. It'd be in character for the EU to decide to offshore production of essential military hardware—for health and safety. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_cadmium_telluride#Infrared_detection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_cadmium_telluride#Infr...
guizzy 3y ago
Italians will leave the EU if they keep killing their gods.
csdvrx 3y ago
Aren't mercury-based amalgam teeth fillings more durable than other techniques because the metal is more plastic that other fillings which are more brittle? Last time I read about that, the risks for mercury exposure was for dentists, not patients.
- Fnoord 3y ago
  There isn't one version/mix of composite/plastic. I know this because when I was younger, I got a filling and it got wrecked quite quickly. They then said they'd use a different mix but it was the last resort. I forgot the pros and cons. But I can say that approx 20 years later, my filling got replaced and the dentist (a different one, for sure) said 'this stuff breaks so quickly'.
- manmal 3y ago
  My dentist claimed gold amalgams are even more durable because they mold even better into the cavity. He himself actually had only gold fillings done.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  Amalgam fillings are more durable than composite fillings, but the latter are much cheaper and they can still have a lifetime of 20 years or more. Ceramic facets or ceramic crowns are more durable than amalgam fillings, as long as they are not used in a way that could fracture them, e.g. by attempting to crush nuts or the like with the teeth.
ksec 3y ago
Asking HN: Mercury Dental amalgam. Does any one know if and when they break, or even if they dont. Do they "leak" mercury into your body? How does the body reacts to tiny trace of substance of mercury? Does it stay inside our body forever? And if your mercury Dental amalgam is still in perfect condition, should you replace it?
- mharig 3y ago
  I have several fillings since around 40 years. Only one did break. Plastic ones probably will not last that long. If the leakages from mercury or plastic are more unhealthy nobody knows. I will not replace mine until absolutely necessary.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  One-off ingestion of metallic mercury isn't a big deal, it basically comes out the other end. But mercury fillings continuously emit a tiny amount of mercury vapor which the person will inhale continuously. Very small amounts but measurable. At the end of the day there's massive amounts of data since these fillings have been in use for over 100 years, and it's quite clear who has them and who doesn't. If they do have actual negative effects, they are small. Definitely better than having cavities, but modern composite fillings are probably better still (though, being plastic, there's the endocrine disruptor question on those - and a much wider range of composite filling materials out there makes it harder to study).
  - martinflack 3y ago
    And a good dentist can swap out your existing mercury fillings for composite ones for you.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  It is unpredictable whether the long term exposure to minute quantities of mercury leached from your fillings will cause harm or not. The safer choice is to replace all the amalgam fillings with composite fillings, unless you cannot afford that (but composite fillings are much cheaper than ceramic facets or crowns, which may be better choices when possible). Anecdotally, I have replaced all my amalgam fillings more than 15 years ago and I have felt much better after that, because with the amalgam I had always felt an unpleasant metallic taste, while ceramic and composite resins do not have any taste.

50 points by manmal 3y ago

HPsquared 3y ago

Fluorescent lamps, in other words. Those are probably the most common mercury-containing item.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
While it does mention lamps, it looks like the main focus is dental amalgam -- including "abating" emissions from crematoria. It looks like the EU has already banned those for people under 15, but there are still a lot of people in the world walking around with amalgam fillings. One presumes the abatement process would involve removing any mercury-based fillings from the deceased before cremation occurred, but they don't explicitly say this.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
lupusreal 3y ago
I miss mercury light switches...
_trampeltier 3y ago
At least in Switzerland, Fluorescent lamps are banned since summer 2023. https://www.bfe.admin.ch/bfe/en/home/efficiency/energy-labels-and-efficiency-requirements/lamps.html https://www.bfe.admin.ch/bfe/en/home/efficiency/energy-label...
AndrewDucker 3y ago
Dental amalgam is the biggest usage, as the article makes clear.

misnome 3y ago

First Pluto and now this? What next, Uranus?

Luker88 3y ago
Some EU countries have constitutions with war avoidance clauses, so my money is on Mars next
- tekla 3y ago
  Obviously the best way to avoid war is to, checks notes, outlaw war.
  - jfoutz 3y ago
    I think the idea is, no attacking. Retaliation is fine.

Anotheroneagain 3y ago

[flagged]

rice7th 3y ago
what???
- Anotheroneagain 3y ago
  It was banned based on practically no evidence, and it's essential for life.
  - joshgachnang 3y ago
    I'd love to see a source on your previous claims.
    - Anotheroneagain 3y ago
      For what claims? It is well documented to get metabolized, and used in the biochemistry of life. Its toxicity is a chimera of nebulous everchanging symptoms and unknown toxic doses.
      - bigbillheck 3y ago
        Just like lead? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39087999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39087999
        Anotheroneagain 3y ago
        Yes, and a few others. Copper is the weirdest one, as its essentiality is widely accepted, autopsies show its reduced concentrations in dementia, yet it's regulated as a toxic metal anyway. The cause of this deception is a mystery to me.
  - rice7th 3y ago

weebull 3y ago

As a general philosophy, don't ban it, regulate the use of it. What if trace amount of mercury are needed for the next world changing technology? By precluding reasonable access you're ensuring that will be invented somewhere else. ..and yes, I realise "bans" are colloquisms for heavy regulation I tend to think of a ban as lazy regulation that only specifies the few small exceptions as opposed to detailed regulation that defines the areas where care needs to be exercised.

frereubu 3y ago
> What if trace amount of mercury are needed for the next world changing technology? Then they will legislate again. Laws aren't written in stone. (And even if they were, you can always get another stone).
Anotheroneagain 3y ago
[flagged]
__m 3y ago
There is no ban on using mercury in research or products that don’t have alternatives.
perihelions 3y ago
- "What if trace amount of mercury are needed for the next world changing technology?" HgCdTe is a critical semiconductor for long-wavelength infrared detectors, and has no equivalent substitute [0]. It'd be in character for the EU to decide to offshore production of essential military hardware—for health and safety. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_cadmium_telluride#Infrared_detection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_cadmium_telluride#Infr...

guizzy 3y ago

Italians will leave the EU if they keep killing their gods.

csdvrx 3y ago

Aren't mercury-based amalgam teeth fillings more durable than other techniques because the metal is more plastic that other fillings which are more brittle? Last time I read about that, the risks for mercury exposure was for dentists, not patients.

Fnoord 3y ago
There isn't one version/mix of composite/plastic. I know this because when I was younger, I got a filling and it got wrecked quite quickly. They then said they'd use a different mix but it was the last resort. I forgot the pros and cons. But I can say that approx 20 years later, my filling got replaced and the dentist (a different one, for sure) said 'this stuff breaks so quickly'.
manmal 3y ago
My dentist claimed gold amalgams are even more durable because they mold even better into the cavity. He himself actually had only gold fillings done.
adrian_b 3y ago
Amalgam fillings are more durable than composite fillings, but the latter are much cheaper and they can still have a lifetime of 20 years or more. Ceramic facets or ceramic crowns are more durable than amalgam fillings, as long as they are not used in a way that could fracture them, e.g. by attempting to crush nuts or the like with the teeth.

ksec 3y ago

Asking HN: Mercury Dental amalgam. Does any one know if and when they break, or even if they dont. Do they "leak" mercury into your body? How does the body reacts to tiny trace of substance of mercury? Does it stay inside our body forever? And if your mercury Dental amalgam is still in perfect condition, should you replace it?

mharig 3y ago
I have several fillings since around 40 years. Only one did break. Plastic ones probably will not last that long. If the leakages from mercury or plastic are more unhealthy nobody knows. I will not replace mine until absolutely necessary.
HPsquared 3y ago
One-off ingestion of metallic mercury isn't a big deal, it basically comes out the other end. But mercury fillings continuously emit a tiny amount of mercury vapor which the person will inhale continuously. Very small amounts but measurable. At the end of the day there's massive amounts of data since these fillings have been in use for over 100 years, and it's quite clear who has them and who doesn't. If they do have actual negative effects, they are small. Definitely better than having cavities, but modern composite fillings are probably better still (though, being plastic, there's the endocrine disruptor question on those - and a much wider range of composite filling materials out there makes it harder to study).
- martinflack 3y ago
  And a good dentist can swap out your existing mercury fillings for composite ones for you.
adrian_b 3y ago
It is unpredictable whether the long term exposure to minute quantities of mercury leached from your fillings will cause harm or not. The safer choice is to replace all the amalgam fillings with composite fillings, unless you cannot afford that (but composite fillings are much cheaper than ceramic facets or crowns, which may be better choices when possible). Anecdotally, I have replaced all my amalgam fillings more than 15 years ago and I have felt much better after that, because with the amalgam I had always felt an unpleasant metallic taste, while ceramic and composite resins do not have any taste.