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I don’t know about milk cow. This is peanuts in the whole EU budget. I think that EU needs to keep a strong position to be compelling for many people. Therwise

I don’t know about milk cow. This is peanuts in the whole EU budget. I think that EU needs to keep a strong position to be compelling for many people. Therwise many might start to see it as an irrelevant institution.

wslh 3y ago
Why now and not years before? As web users, daily, we see all kind of blatant abuses that EU (and USA...) don't see. BTW, the EU has been quasi irrelevant in realpolitik terms.
- shafyy 3y ago
  In the article, it says that Spotify filed the complained in 2019 and these big cases can take a long time. There's no big consipiracy theory, I'm sorry! > BTW, the EU has been quasi irrelevant in realpolitik terms. What?
  - wslh 3y ago
    This is not a conspiracy theory. Big cases shouldn't take a long time with the existing technology. It is on the political side to know how to execute laws faster. People around the world are silently accepting slow law systems instead of speeding them up. We are in 2024. BTW, I have experience working with lawyers and the legal system in significant cases. You will cry or laugh if you witness the processes and tools used.
    - microtonal 3y ago
      I am not sure where you are going with this. Yes, we would all like this to go faster. Bureaucracy is slow. But at least the EU has strong consumer protection, privacy, and anti-competitive laws and we all benefit from it (at least EU citizens).
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - wslh 3y ago
        No, bureacracy is accepted as slow and there are organizations who are responsible and are paid for improving this. This argument is not about the EU. People are accepting bureaucracies in a Kafkian way and in a time where there are no excuses. Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection?
        microtonal 3y ago
        Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection? You take one issue and try to nullify all consumer laws with it. First, cookie banners are not legal anymore. They should be a dialog where 'No' is the first and foremost option and 'Yes' (opt in to tracking) requires permission per type of tracking. IMO this is a large improvement over: don't even ask, just track users based on PII everywhere, which is the case pretty much everywhere outside the EU. The fact that you see banners everywhere is data hungriness of those websites. They could simply not track you by default and no banner would be needed. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a future iteration of the GDPR will forbid such banners and require no tracking to be the default. But leaving this specific points. There are many great consumer laws in the EU: * Your data bundle is valid in all EU countries. Before the EU intervened, providers would charge you through the nose for data outside your country. * A web shop in any EU country is required to deliver to any other EU country. You live in Germany, but see a phone at a Dutch web shop that is much cheaper? The Dutch web shop cannot refuse you service because you are in Germany. * You can return any online purchase within 14 days without justification (14 days after receiving the product). * There is a single Euro payment system (SEPA). How big this is, is hard to grasp if you are in a large country. But it was hard to transfer money between countries, let alone without incurring fees. Now you can transfer money to any account in the EU without fees using in a uniform way (IBAN account number). * Strong warranty laws. E.g. if a company does not solve an issue within a reasonable time, they are required to give you a full refund. I could go on and on, there are so many good examples where EU regulations improve day-to-day life.
    - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
      what exact technologies do you think governments are depending on that if replaced could speed up the execution of laws and prosecution of cases?
      - wslh 3y ago
        It is not about "exact" technologies but about having a goal and execute it in a smart way. That "exact" technology could be a tool that you know how to find and use from GitHub that is written in any programming language.
  - wslh 3y ago
    >> BTW, the EU has been quasi irrelevant in realpolitik terms. >What? Please tell how it is relevant in macro politics.
    - LunaSea 3y ago
      It's the largest unified market in the world?
      - wslh 3y ago
        [flagged]
        LunaSea 3y ago
        Is this relevant regarding consumer market importance for a brand? If I recall correctly, in the matter of the Ukraine war, the US already folded no?
        wslh 3y ago
        I mentioned realpolitik and you continued the discussion from that point.
        izacus 3y ago
        You spewed out some bull and people called you on it to provide some support.
        ttepasse 3y ago
        The EU itself is the biggest financier of the Ukraine. That is in addition to the individual contributions of the EU member states. The military assistance is of course a member state prerogative, but pure financial support is not nothing – after all Ukraine tries to run a country while fighting a war. And Ukraine uses that money to purchase that military equipment. Source: IFW Ukraine Support Tracker https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...
- bsder 3y ago
  > Why now and not years before? You would prefer that the EU slap businesses around with arbitrary fines faster? Be careful what you wish for; you might get it. Law and government do not move fast. Yeah, sometimes that sucks. However, you want your law mostly predictable. You don't want to suddenly wind up in jail because some activity is making Dear Leader look bad on Weibo today.

wslh 3y ago

Why now and not years before? As web users, daily, we see all kind of blatant abuses that EU (and USA...) don't see. BTW, the EU has been quasi irrelevant in realpolitik terms.

shafyy 3y ago
In the article, it says that Spotify filed the complained in 2019 and these big cases can take a long time. There's no big consipiracy theory, I'm sorry! > BTW, the EU has been quasi irrelevant in realpolitik terms. What?
- wslh 3y ago
  This is not a conspiracy theory. Big cases shouldn't take a long time with the existing technology. It is on the political side to know how to execute laws faster. People around the world are silently accepting slow law systems instead of speeding them up. We are in 2024. BTW, I have experience working with lawyers and the legal system in significant cases. You will cry or laugh if you witness the processes and tools used.
  - microtonal 3y ago
    I am not sure where you are going with this. Yes, we would all like this to go faster. Bureaucracy is slow. But at least the EU has strong consumer protection, privacy, and anti-competitive laws and we all benefit from it (at least EU citizens).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - wslh 3y ago
      No, bureacracy is accepted as slow and there are organizations who are responsible and are paid for improving this. This argument is not about the EU. People are accepting bureaucracies in a Kafkian way and in a time where there are no excuses. Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection?
      - microtonal 3y ago
        Regarding EU, you said that forcing websites to put UI dialogs asking for accepting cookies is a good consumer protection? You take one issue and try to nullify all consumer laws with it. First, cookie banners are not legal anymore. They should be a dialog where 'No' is the first and foremost option and 'Yes' (opt in to tracking) requires permission per type of tracking. IMO this is a large improvement over: don't even ask, just track users based on PII everywhere, which is the case pretty much everywhere outside the EU. The fact that you see banners everywhere is data hungriness of those websites. They could simply not track you by default and no banner would be needed. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a future iteration of the GDPR will forbid such banners and require no tracking to be the default. But leaving this specific points. There are many great consumer laws in the EU: * Your data bundle is valid in all EU countries. Before the EU intervened, providers would charge you through the nose for data outside your country. * A web shop in any EU country is required to deliver to any other EU country. You live in Germany, but see a phone at a Dutch web shop that is much cheaper? The Dutch web shop cannot refuse you service because you are in Germany. * You can return any online purchase within 14 days without justification (14 days after receiving the product). * There is a single Euro payment system (SEPA). How big this is, is hard to grasp if you are in a large country. But it was hard to transfer money between countries, let alone without incurring fees. Now you can transfer money to any account in the EU without fees using in a uniform way (IBAN account number). * Strong warranty laws. E.g. if a company does not solve an issue within a reasonable time, they are required to give you a full refund. I could go on and on, there are so many good examples where EU regulations improve day-to-day life.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    what exact technologies do you think governments are depending on that if replaced could speed up the execution of laws and prosecution of cases?
    - wslh 3y ago
      It is not about "exact" technologies but about having a goal and execute it in a smart way. That "exact" technology could be a tool that you know how to find and use from GitHub that is written in any programming language.
- wslh 3y ago
  >> BTW, the EU has been quasi irrelevant in realpolitik terms. >What? Please tell how it is relevant in macro politics.
  - LunaSea 3y ago
    It's the largest unified market in the world?
    - wslh 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - LunaSea 3y ago
        Is this relevant regarding consumer market importance for a brand? If I recall correctly, in the matter of the Ukraine war, the US already folded no?
        wslh 3y ago
        I mentioned realpolitik and you continued the discussion from that point.
        izacus 3y ago
        You spewed out some bull and people called you on it to provide some support.
      - ttepasse 3y ago
        The EU itself is the biggest financier of the Ukraine. That is in addition to the individual contributions of the EU member states. The military assistance is of course a member state prerogative, but pure financial support is not nothing – after all Ukraine tries to run a country while fighting a war. And Ukraine uses that money to purchase that military equipment. Source: IFW Ukraine Support Tracker https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...
bsder 3y ago
> Why now and not years before? You would prefer that the EU slap businesses around with arbitrary fines faster? Be careful what you wish for; you might get it. Law and government do not move fast. Yeah, sometimes that sucks. However, you want your law mostly predictable. You don't want to suddenly wind up in jail because some activity is making Dear Leader look bad on Weibo today.