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Just to make a supporting argument to this... I introduced my son to neal.fun this morning and he asked "can you make this easier for me to get to?" and I was

Just to make a supporting argument to this... I introduced my son to neal.fun this morning and he asked "can you make this easier for me to get to?" and I was like, "sure, there's some way to pin it to the home screen." I know this feature exists and I've even written code to support this feature ... yet I spent nearly 5 minutes looking for the button. Hiding it in the share sheet is downright stupid.

jasonjayr 3y ago
Apple could choose to make the option front and center. Firefox has it as a primary option on the main menu. The reason that devs don't target or improve it is the friction Apple (and Google to a degree) they put in front of utilizing PWA/web apps.
- jsnell 3y ago
  Chrome on Android has "Install App" in the main menu. It allows for sites to trigger an install flow without going any browser menus (you can e.g. have an "Install" button on a site, and clicking it will diredctly open a PWA installation prompt). In addition to that, Android supports PWAs in the Play Store. It supports other browsers, and doesn't restrict them from installing PWAs or providing alternate installation flows. I really don't understand the equivalency you're drawing here. Apple are a uniquely bad guy in this respect, it's not a difference of degree, it's a difference of kind.
  - jasonjayr 3y ago
    Google's implementation is nice, I agree, but I'm talking about richer APIs for PWAs, on parity with native apps. I imagine Google could, now that Apple is being forced to allow multiple browsers, have a 'Chrome launcher' for PWAs on iOS. It can't put it on the home screen, but it could present itself as a 'Folder' of apps, that are all web based.
interpol_p 3y ago
It's pretty well hidden to the point of "why do they bother supporting this feature?"
szasamasa 3y ago
it would be nice to strongly suggest a cross browser idea in the manifest "standard" that is an unstable draft but anyways... that is complicated because it is actually now a browser decision my idea would be long pressing the domain (2 sec) and then standalone mode and "app" icon... like the icon appears and you drop it on your home screen (on desktop other stuff like a prompt do you want a launcher icon, a desktop icon or just integration into apps) it is extremely universal and easy to remember, practically you grab the web domain and pack it into an icon and drop it onto your home screen or game folder on the home screen etc... a clear, instinctive user choice... you learn it on one domain and apply it by all other actually, you do not even need a manifest file if you have some favicon and short app name in the html... it is just a user choice to switch to standalone mode from tab mode, aka use it as an app it would also clear up these unnecessary buzzwords and non-standard failing wording like "progressive" "PWA" or "install"... I understand what people meant with these words back then but it just confuses even tech people... nowadays standalone mode ("install") is orthogonal to whether the website is capable, good, progressive or whatever... like the .fun domain is a nice game that your child tried and enjoyed, it is hopefully well written so you want to use it in standalone instead of tab mode... you do it without fear of installing anything (nothing is installed) and if everything ok you use it launching it directly from the home screen without browser UI... seemless, that is the actual idea, no need for confusing and contraproductive wording
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  I think an invisible long press is just as (un)intuitive as the share sheet junk drawer.
  - szasamasa 3y ago
    I think it is non-obtrusive and the first time you have to learn it (on the site you first want to use standalone or googleing or somebody tells you who already knows) after the first time, you just know it... I would bet 1m dollars if we made consumer group tests.. that is intuitive and easy to remember, I did not say easy to guess :)

jasonjayr 3y ago

Apple could choose to make the option front and center. Firefox has it as a primary option on the main menu. The reason that devs don't target or improve it is the friction Apple (and Google to a degree) they put in front of utilizing PWA/web apps.

jsnell 3y ago
Chrome on Android has "Install App" in the main menu. It allows for sites to trigger an install flow without going any browser menus (you can e.g. have an "Install" button on a site, and clicking it will diredctly open a PWA installation prompt). In addition to that, Android supports PWAs in the Play Store. It supports other browsers, and doesn't restrict them from installing PWAs or providing alternate installation flows. I really don't understand the equivalency you're drawing here. Apple are a uniquely bad guy in this respect, it's not a difference of degree, it's a difference of kind.
- jasonjayr 3y ago
  Google's implementation is nice, I agree, but I'm talking about richer APIs for PWAs, on parity with native apps. I imagine Google could, now that Apple is being forced to allow multiple browsers, have a 'Chrome launcher' for PWAs on iOS. It can't put it on the home screen, but it could present itself as a 'Folder' of apps, that are all web based.

interpol_p 3y ago

It's pretty well hidden to the point of "why do they bother supporting this feature?"

szasamasa 3y ago

it would be nice to strongly suggest a cross browser idea in the manifest "standard" that is an unstable draft but anyways... that is complicated because it is actually now a browser decision my idea would be long pressing the domain (2 sec) and then standalone mode and "app" icon... like the icon appears and you drop it on your home screen (on desktop other stuff like a prompt do you want a launcher icon, a desktop icon or just integration into apps) it is extremely universal and easy to remember, practically you grab the web domain and pack it into an icon and drop it onto your home screen or game folder on the home screen etc... a clear, instinctive user choice... you learn it on one domain and apply it by all other actually, you do not even need a manifest file if you have some favicon and short app name in the html... it is just a user choice to switch to standalone mode from tab mode, aka use it as an app it would also clear up these unnecessary buzzwords and non-standard failing wording like "progressive" "PWA" or "install"... I understand what people meant with these words back then but it just confuses even tech people... nowadays standalone mode ("install") is orthogonal to whether the website is capable, good, progressive or whatever... like the .fun domain is a nice game that your child tried and enjoyed, it is hopefully well written so you want to use it in standalone instead of tab mode... you do it without fear of installing anything (nothing is installed) and if everything ok you use it launching it directly from the home screen without browser UI... seemless, that is the actual idea, no need for confusing and contraproductive wording

madeofpalk 3y ago
I think an invisible long press is just as (un)intuitive as the share sheet junk drawer.
- szasamasa 3y ago
  I think it is non-obtrusive and the first time you have to learn it (on the site you first want to use standalone or googleing or somebody tells you who already knows) after the first time, you just know it... I would bet 1m dollars if we made consumer group tests.. that is intuitive and easy to remember, I did not say easy to guess :)